Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Edit: I need to hope back into normal foundry, but it seems like we are losing some triggers here.

Here is how things are looking, if tribble gets pushed live:

General: "This component complete" has been entirely removed as a trigger. But, I think that we can just use "component complete" and specify itself instead.

Contacts, NPC Groups, and Objects:

If the npc contact, npc group, or object is "outside" of the storyboard, then we still have most triggers except for "this component complete."

However, if you have either a "talk to contact" or "kill enemies" or "interact with object" in the storyboard, your only available triggers are "Immediately" and "This Objective in Progress."

Has this always been that way?

Reach Markers:

No longer have triggers.

Dialog Popups (the blue bubbles we manually put on the maps):

The only available triggers are "component complete" and "component reached."

Are we losing triggers here?
----------

OK, there are probably more restrictions that I'm missing, but I need the community's help. How will these changes affect your existing maps?

It's hard to wrap my brain around how it will affect mine, but I know that I've used these missing triggers in many different ways. With all the workarounds just to make something work at all, I think that I've needed every single type of trigger for something.

Anyways, how will these changes affect your missions?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
06-10-2012, 05:44 PM
Any object that is used in an objective has always been very limited.

Immediately or Objective in progress have always been the ones for objects or things to appear and "This component complete' or 'objective complete' have been the ones hiding. I'll take a look at hiding an objective-based interactive object in Tribble foundry soon.

I don't think reach markers ever had triggers, in that they were always active until triggered. It has been that way since foundry launched. In Starfleet Experimentation I went to try and add an object to block a door the second time you entered a room (the first was aready implemented) but I could not find a way to make the reach marker that I used to trigger only after somethnig had been completed.


Objective in progress? I guess that would be apart of the Objective Complete trigger removal but I see no reason why a reach marker would no longer trigger a dialog. I'll have to check that out too.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
06-10-2012, 05:51 PM
Yeah, maybe the loss of "this component complete" is throwing me for a loop and it just seems different, especially with popups placed on maps.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
06-10-2012, 06:00 PM
I think Bazag is right that this is mostly how it has been. I'm still disappointed that Objective Complete and Objective In Progress were not simply fixed for dialogues though. It did not seem to me that the bugs afflicting them were really so serious that they could not be fixed. Especially with "In Progress", the functionality worked fine, we just couldn't publish due to a false error. Although it doesn't affect anyone's missions because we've all had to rely on work-arounds for some time, it still would have been nice to have that functionality.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
06-10-2012, 07:18 PM
Do you foresee any of these changes causing major headaches for missions already published under the current system?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
06-10-2012, 07:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by docflamingo2
Do you foresee any of these changes causing major headaches for missions already published under the current system?
I'm not sure. If the autopublish changes our "this component completes" to "component completes" then maybe not. However, if all authors are required to edit their projects to fix, then it's going to be a big headache. I use "this component complete" so much that it will probably take 3 edits per mission to find all of them.

For the authors who have moved on, their mission might be forever borked. For authors who've published many, many missions, it might take awhile to fix.

I'm just hoping that other changes aren't more serious than this.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
06-11-2012, 12:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkfat View Post
Edit: I need to hope back into normal foundry, but it seems like we are losing some triggers here.

Here is how things are looking, if tribble gets pushed live:
Quote:
General: "This component complete" has been entirely removed as a trigger. But, I think that we can just use "component complete" and specify itself instead.
Are you sure it is component complete and not Objective Complete? They cited using component complete as the fix to get around not needing Objective Complete (as it was already the main solution anyways). Are you saying "Component Complete" is out completely?

Quote:
Contacts, NPC Groups, and Objects:

If the npc contact, npc group, or object is "outside" of the storyboard, then we still have most triggers except for "this component complete."

However, if you have either a "talk to contact" or "kill enemies" or "interact with object" in the storyboard, your only available triggers are "Immediately" and "This Objective in Progress."

Has this always been that way?
Yes, at least it has for a long while.

Quote:
Reach Markers:

No longer have triggers.
Never had triggers, hence the problem with them going off early. These and respawn points always show up immediately and can never be set to triggers.

Quote:
Dialog Popups (the blue bubbles we manually put on the maps):

The only available triggers are "component complete" and "component reached."

Are we losing triggers here?
Loosing Objective in Progress and Objective Complete. Objective in Progress loss may be a bit of a hiccup. Now you said "Component Complete" here the same term you used at the top. I want to make sure that it is only "Objective Complete" that we are loosing and not "Component Complete". The first doesn't work anyways, the second is our needed work around.

Quote:
OK, there are probably more restrictions that I'm missing, but I need the community's help. How will these changes affect your existing maps?

It's hard to wrap my brain around how it will affect mine, but I know that I've used these missing triggers in many different ways. With all the workarounds just to make something work at all, I think that I've needed every single type of trigger for something.

Anyways, how will these changes affect your missions?
None, unless objective in progress is removed, I have used that for some, but all of them easily can be switched to component complete. There will definitely be some map phasing and object appearance that will need to be caught up with and a few re-toolings but nothing major. Only big things will be what we can do now that everything is fixed.

Honestly, there is nothing here that is really broken since using it before resulted in errors anyways. We loose some things we can't use and obviously don't need. Objective Complete can be replaced by Component Complete for all current working needs. The only things I can think of where it wouldn't work are already broken anyways so we can't use them in that manner.

I don't see the loss from removing those options, at all. We haven't been able to use them. At least, I haven't. Cleans up the UI and the Forums since we won't have people repeating the same "Help I am having dialog errors" problem over and over and over. I could understand being upset if they provided different utility but they don't.

Objective in Progress is the wary one, mainly for object appearance since I use it a lot to make doors or objects or contacts appear. I'd rather hope that one stays, but, work-arounds are easily made if we still have Component Complete.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
06-11-2012, 12:16 AM
The problem with just scrapping Objective Complete is you can't really substitute Component Complete in all situations. Objectives can be both interacts or reach markers, and Component Reached triggers as soon as you enter the marker, even if the Objective it's used for is not active. So there's no way to actually have a trigger that occurs after that reach marker Objective is complete.

It's just not true that Component Complete is a true substitute, which is why I think removing these as an option is disappointing, albeit we haven't been able to use them with dialogues for some time.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
06-11-2012, 01:01 AM
The only objective, that I can think of, that doesn't involve something you can mark with Component Complete is speaking with contacts. It comes in to play if you want to summon another dialog box right after (for placement of Dialog Choices linked to other triggers) or objects. However, currently Objective in Progress solves most those problems with object appearance, with the exception of the Dialog pop ups, which break with the "Contact Not Found" if you try to run them right after a Contact Objective or after/same time as a Story Dialog anyways as the system currently works.

I see the loss of Objective in Progress as being troublesome, but still don't see anything we are loosing by them removing Objective Complete.

If I'm not thinking of something you have in mind though, involving Objective Complete, that we will loose share it. I don't want to be bit in the aft by this either, I'm just not seeing what it is you are.

EDIT: Actually I do see the Component Reached problem, since we can't set the markers to appear at any given time. However, since we can't do that anyways or get anything to work off it, I've always found ways to plan around it. I wonder if it is a case of that learned behavior is clouding my eyes for what we could do if the option was available.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
06-11-2012, 01:28 AM
Well, I'm definitely going to lose a lot if "This Component Complete" and "Objective In Progress" are deleted - half of my mission is built around stuff like that
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