Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 162
# 1 Vo'Quv: Weapon choices?
07-04-2012, 08:54 PM
All right, so I (foolishly) bought one of these because I wanted to see what carrier-style gameplay was like. Currently, I'm saving up for something more fun, but in the meantime, I'd like to make my Vo'Quv time as painless as possible. So here's the deal:

I'm an engineer. I make heavy use of gravity wells and other such things that demand my ship be facing my target rather than sideswiping it, so I'm looking for something with turrents in the back and a torpedo of some type + fore weapon in the front. (I really don't want a beam boat...) However, I'm at a loss as to which fore weapon I should go with.

Dual/dual heavy cannons: (45 degree) This is the logical choice for maximum dps, but I can't see it getting very much uptime, given the carrier's abysmal turn rate. Is this a correct assessment?

Dual beam banks: (90 degree) Seems like a good alternative to the 45s that would allow for more weapon uptime without having to play the struggle-to-turn minigame so much. This would go well with torpedos because they both have the same fire radius.

Dual cannons: (180 degree) Minimal worry about turning at this point, but something of a dps hit.

Turrets all the way: (360 degree) Turning becomes a non-issue unless I want to use a gravity well or torpedo. Pretty awful dps though, I'd imagine.

- - -

So, recommendations, thoughts, etc from other Vo'Quv users?

Thanks!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,241
# 2
07-04-2012, 09:33 PM
I'm sorry you bought the Vo'Quv... since the devs messed up the pet AI its not a carrier its just a big easy target that thinks its a science ship.


In any case...


3x dual cannon. Your choice of antiproton, disruptor or tetryon. The point of these dual cannons is to lower the target's shields quickly.

Rear: 3X turrets to match frontal weapon damage type.


Borg engine, universal module and deflector. KDF shield.

2 armor kinetic modules, 1 70% power relay in engineering.

dilithium store shield console (forget its name) and 2X shield boosters plus the borg univ. console here. Replace one shield booster with the plasmonic leech if you have it.

Tac match the weapon type to console for +dmg.


Boff:

Lt Cmdr Tactical

Tac team 1, Rapid fire 1, rapid fire 2 (or volley if you wish)

Sci Cmdr
Grav well 3, hazard 3, repulsors and polarize hull

Sci Lt
Sci team1, transfer shields 2.

Lt Cmdr Engineer:
Emg to shield 3, engineering team 2 , emg to shield 1


Use the dilithium store To'Dujs. Dont bother with the birds of prey... they're absolutely screwed up. ToDuj will outdamage the BoP by a wide margin and they respond instantly.


Using this setup is easy: You fly to 9.9km of target (if its static), sit there and blast away. In STF's where you can put yourself in the flight path of ships (aka probes heading to gate) you can simply gravity well & kill anything that comes your way. Repulsor beams are extremely useful for all situations.

Power setting: Wep 70 Shield 70 Engine 25 and anything left to AUX.

Borg kit and your own healing abilities will tank almost anything.
http://media.tumblr.com/160cacdb395f8340dac90864182ebe16/tumblr_inline_mx9yxhItkb1qg9pkt.jpg
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 34
# 3
07-04-2012, 10:21 PM
Ok i own voq'uv Kar'fi and the atrox. On my enginer i just switched from my kar'fi to voq'uv since i have a tank build. I have tested alot of different setups, i have all 3 captians setup a bit different.

Voq'uv engineer- energy type polaron to give a bit more power due to proc.
Power settings. I like having weapon power maxed in stf. So max weapon 25 aux and engines with rest in shields.

Front weapons
2 single cannons
1 single beam array- for target subsystems

Rear weapons
3 turrets

This weapon setup allows me to move arround the target to keep my defense up.

Oh on boff.
tactical - TT1 cannon spread 1 cannon spread 2
science -Polarized hull 1, tikens rift 1, energy siphon 2 Gravity well 3
science - Hazard emitter 1 , science team 2
Engineering- emergency power to shields 1, engineering team 2, aux to structual 2

This setup allows me to tank pretty well. Ill use tt1 mostly but ill hit engineering or science team depends on what i need most while tanking. Tikens rift and Gravity well can be used while tanking to take out torpedos to save from being 1 shot. I love this shield to play tank with. Cannon spread seems to grab more agro than rapid fire does in my testing plus on probes it rocks killing 2-3 probes with 1 spread.

Consoles arent the best i could get but they are what i have gathered.

engineer 1 rcs 2 nautronien(or whatever the kinetic/resist console is)
science borg graviton and particle until i can afford to fill with shield emmitters
Tactical polaron 26+%

I use high guard deflector and shields with borg engines.

My tactical is similar but with dual heavy instead of single cannons.

I use advanced slavers mostly but sometimes i use birds of prey. They might not have super high dps but in my testing the fighters and bop come close to same dps totals. The slavers i use for probe duty due to the mine placement they use.

Movement.... if you need to turn about learn to use reverse to speed up your turning. I can turn on a dime and give you 9 cents change in my carriers

Last edited by dlmystic; 07-04-2012 at 10:29 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 162
# 4
07-04-2012, 10:43 PM
Thanks guys, this kind of detail is exactly what I was hoping for, although I doubt I'll be going all out with dilithum-store fighters and such since the minions can be pretty stupid sometimes. Eventually, I want to move onto something maneuverable, such as (call me crazy, but...) a bird of prey. I -really- like the maneuverability I get on my fed character and the BoP playstyle seems so intriguingly different. But then again...engineer + bop? Hmm, not sure about that.

Anyway:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlmystic View Post
Front weapons
2 single cannons
1 single beam array- for target subsystems
Ooh, I didn't even think of the beam array for subsystem targeting, so going all cannons would've locked me out of that. Is a single beam array actually effective with those?
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 34
# 5
07-04-2012, 11:24 PM
yes it is very effective unless my target is facing it i can hit the target at broad side or forward. all cannons does lock you out thats why all my ships has 1 single array for that. IT sometimes saves your ship when targeting weapons or aux on the enemy
A fleet mate of mine is now saving to get his carrier he has a heavy bop and wants more survival. Its all about pick the ship you enjoy. I can say the karfi doesnt have target subsystems is more manuverable and lays out a heavy bit of dps. with better survival than a bop but enjoy the bop if thats more to your liking too
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,241
# 6
07-05-2012, 04:42 AM
I would not recommend you use the native subsystem attacks in the Voquv.

The reason is simple: Its the equivalent of having the subsystem attack skill trained on a tac BO but putting no points into it. That is why the re-use timer on them is so infernally long.

Also, as they are tier1 abilities, they have a very low 'proc' chance. Meaning they cannot be relied on to drop a shield or slow a ship to a stop (tgt engine). It is only the tier3 ability that reliably pops those subsystems.

I tested a full beam array VoQuv using Shield Subsystem 3 and Engine subsystem 2 ... it IS helpful but only in very limited situations and the damage output is dismal compared to rapid firing cannons.


As for the issue of BoPs vs ToduJ fighters: The BoP's technically should do more damage but they do not because they spend 90% of their time aiming their noses away from the target hence they only shoot their turret. ToDujs on the other hand literally turn instantly to face target and fire.

Hint for using ToDujs: Launch them with RECALL order. Keep them close to you. When you have a target you want dead simply tell them to ATTACK...

and watch the ToDuj cloud fly forward as a group... and when they fire their torpedos RECALL THEM inmediately.

When the Toduj Torpedos hit target order them to attack again...and again when they fire their torpedos recall them.

This way you keep them flying back and forth between your carrier and target..they stay inside 5km from your carrier launching nonstop torpedo volleys.

In contrast, if you just leave them under attack order and see them fly to target and surround it the ToDujs will only fire their torpedos once as a group as they close in and then they will fire one torpedo at random every 10 seconds or so. BoP's wont fire torpedos unless their noses or rear are facing target...which is RARE because of their idiotically programmed flight attack patterns.
http://media.tumblr.com/160cacdb395f8340dac90864182ebe16/tumblr_inline_mx9yxhItkb1qg9pkt.jpg
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 77
# 7
07-04-2012, 10:29 PM
I've never captained a Vo'Quv and I'm not a fan of playing as an engineer but I might be able to point you in the direction of something that will help. Somewhere around here there is a thread about Bortasqu that could move quite well when it had to. The jist of it was that by use of aux to inertial dampeners and liberal use of deuterium he was able to get give his cruiser some nasty wheels when he wanted to take position to open up on an enemy.

You do have a LCdr eng in your bridge layout so it might be worth looking at. I think it would allow you to come to a new head to unleash science but I'm not sure how viable it would be with a single eng boff to keep cannons on target reliably. I may not know but somebody here does.

If you weren't playing an Eng I'd ask you why you aren't in command of a Kar-Fi. High maneuverabilty (for a carrier) and bags of science trick goodness. The look of it takes some adjusting to and is probably the only thing I'm not sure I like about it (The metallic lion fish has grown on me somewhat). There must be someone around here who tried to command a Kar-Fi with an engineer and if they see this I'd like to hear about their experiences. Eng support on board is weak (Lt) but your captains abilities might give you a survivability bump .

Best of luck and don't write it off yet, the sky isn't falling.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 34
# 8
07-04-2012, 10:35 PM
Dang i forgot my boff skills

Tactical TT1, cannon volley1, cannon volley2
engineering epts1, Engineering team 2, Aux to structual 2
science polarized hull 1, tikens rift 1, energy siphon 2, grave well 3
science hazard emitters 1, science team 2

I used tt1 with a con boff to help it refresh faster. ill use science or engineering teams between when i need them. Volley seems to allow me to hold better agro over rapid fire, and kill 3 probes fast at once. Tikens rift and grave well has the effect of killing off torpedos. Also using your fighters on intercept when tanking the tac cubes helps a bit with torpedos.
Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 25
# 9
07-05-2012, 04:51 AM
If you're going to play more of a support role with your carrier, you could take Attack Pattern Delta 1 and 2 to buff people when they start taking focused fire and it will debuff everything that shoots them. You could also take Attack Pattern Beta 1 and 2 as it will increase your damage on your target, but also increase the damage from all of your fighters and teammates and anything else that's damaging your target (friendly NPCs, map hazards, etc.).

With such an abysmal turn rate, you should probably stay away from anything that has a 45 degree field of fire, because you'll have trouble keeping your nose on anything that isn't sitting still. Of course, there are situations where many of your targets will be doing just that, so you might carry different weapons in your inventory to take advantage of those situations. Regular cannons with their 180 degree field of fire are much easier to keep on target, since you need to worry less about keeping it in front of you and worry more about keeping it from getting around behind you. It is for this reason that some science skills will be more easily deployed than others. Things like Gravity Well and Tyken's Rift require you to face your target, but Energy Siphon has 360 targetting. Again, different tools for different applications and different situations.

With such a slow-turning ship, you would normally benefit from maintaining further distances, as a short turn of your nose makes for a lot of distance out at 10km, but your cannons and turrets would experience degraded performance with increased distance, encouraging you to move in closer to attack. There will probably be many times where your carrier will spend most of it's time in close combat actually going in reverse, just to keep things in front of your ship while allowing you to keep some speed going for maneuvers. Just remember, it doesn't matter how awesome the DPS is on a weapon if you can't actually shoot it at your target, and the more seconds you spend not shooting it at your target, the lower that "S" multiplier gets.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,105
# 10
07-05-2012, 08:00 AM
I use a Vo'Quv as an Engineer also, I think its best to just go with 6 beam arrays. I use GW frequently in STFs, and its not hard to open with GW then turn and broadside. If GW comes up again and you aren't facing your target and want to use it sometimes there is another nearby target to switch to, or just shift your speed almost all the way down and use evasive manuvers to qucikly turn and face your target and GW.

As a carrier you accelerate slow, and will often be fighting at long range, cannons and turrets don't work good past 5k, so beams are the way to go, but the carrier doesn't have the turn rate for DBB.

Don't listen to the guy saying he is sorry you bought the Voquv because its a big slow target, some people just don't know how to play carriers. With my eng in a voquv I am frequently at the or near the top in damage and kills in arena pvp, while still leading the team in heals to since I use heals in every sci slot I can, and I die less due to being able to tank like a cruiser. I frequently get comments in zone from the other team saying stuff like "damn carrier", and in STFs commenting how fast I bring gates down.

You should just make sure to use 2 hangars B'rotlh Bird of Prey refits from the dil store. Make sure to keep them recalled when before you start a fight so they stay cloaked and don't attack the wrong target. Then when you are within 15k click attack mode, and close range to 10k yourself so you can support with fire, the BOP usually should be hitting the right targets, if not you can always switch to their target and kill it off quickly it won't last very long against the games most damaging carrier pets. Also you can click recall mode then attack mode again to help get them on target. Relaunching more BOP during combat also helps make sure they are on target.

Anyway, having pets isn't attack wrong target isn't a big problem for me, just practice timing your pet commands right and you should be ok.

Also wanted to add that I think its more important to run 2 tac teams on a carrier, then take FAW3. Won't leave you room for attack paterns but lets you tank much better with continuous tac team.

Last edited by marc8219; 07-05-2012 at 08:11 AM. Reason: details
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