Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 598
# 1 Map confusion.
07-06-2012, 12:28 AM
What up with the map. It seem to not make since because the Klingon Empire is suppose to border Romulan space, Cardasian Space and Federations space. In this game, Cardasian space is on the opposite side of the Federation not near Klingon space. You go up on the map in Cardasan space to get to Orelious Sector but that sector block is lower left of federation Space and southe of Cardasian space. What is this, Pack-man world? You go in on one side and come out on the opposite end?
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 60
# 2
07-06-2012, 12:59 AM
Hm, the Romulans and the Klingons have a direct border in the game. From Omega you have to flight to Pi Canis and then directly to Psi Velorum.

And speaking of borders in space is a little bit difficult, because it is endless in all directions. How do you secure such a border?

Here is a map: http://www.stdimension.org/Cartograp.../chart212e.jpg

I would say the Federation is between Cardassian and Klingon space, but it is really hard to tell.


"What are his rights in this century? Will there be a trial or shall I execute him?" - Worf
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 39
# 3
07-06-2012, 02:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by attizz View Post
Hm, the Romulans and the Klingons have a direct border in the game. From Omega you have to flight to Pi Canis and then directly to Psi Velorum.

And speaking of borders in space is a little bit difficult, because it is endless in all directions. How do you secure such a border?

Here is a map: http://www.stdimension.org/Cartograp.../chart212e.jpg

I would say the Federation is between Cardassian and Klingon space, but it is really hard to tell.

true they should have and I am sure that will happen once 3d maps are added since space is 3d after all.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 598
# 4
07-06-2012, 09:06 AM
I know space is 3d but we are force to use a 2d format. If you go up you don't appear at the bottom. If you go left don't appear right. No Klingons weren't allow to cut through Federation space to fight Cardasians, because when the Klingons raided Cardasian worlds during the Dominion War under Chancelor Galron, Fed did not approve.

Just because its a game don't mean it can't follow some canonism. I played almost all the Star Trek games and their maps follow canonism. Why make excuses for this game?
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 60
# 5
07-06-2012, 09:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
I know space is 3d but we are force to use a 2d format. If you go up you don't appear at the bottom. If you go left don't appear right. No Klingons weren't allow to cut through Federation space to fight Cardasians, because when the Klingons raided Cardasian worlds during the Dominion War under Chancelor Galron, Fed did not approve.

Just because its a game don't mean it can't follow some canonism. I played almost all the Star Trek games and their maps follow canonism. Why make excuses for this game?
You are right, I'am sorry . In episode 1 and 2 of season 3 (DS9) it gets clear that the Klingon space is not far away from Bajor.


"What are his rights in this century? Will there be a trial or shall I execute him?" - Worf
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 796
# 6
07-06-2012, 01:15 AM
The Game is made just to be that... a game... So the map is not 100% accurate to cannon. It is somewhat close, but there are some silly things out there, like the Legendary Mutara Nebula, which was suppose to have been destroyed during the Genesis incident in 2285.

Also, the Klingons, if they wanted to, could have cut through the lower part of the Sirius Block into Cardassian Space. The Federation was at peace with them during Klingon/Cardassian War, so there was no reason why they wouldn't cut through their space.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 453
# 7
07-06-2012, 09:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyeto13 View Post
The Game is made just to be that... a game... So the map is not 100% accurate to cannon. It is somewhat close, but there are some silly things out there, like the Legendary Mutara Nebula, which was suppose to have been destroyed during the Genesis incident in 2285.

Also, the Klingons, if they wanted to, could have cut through the lower part of the Sirius Block into Cardassian Space. The Federation was at peace with them during Klingon/Cardassian War, so there was no reason why they wouldn't cut through their space.
Keep in mind that there was never an official map showing the political territories of the galaxy ever released in the first place. Only supplemental materials that barely describe where everything is already. I myself have an official Star Trek Technical Manual that was made back in the 1960s. It only covers the Original Series, but it shows a good portrayal of how large Federation space is (See that gigantic swath of Blue on the map that we can't access? That's all Fed territory) as well as showing Klingon territory on the south side and Romulan territory on the east side of the map.



You can find a little bit more info on the galaxy map in the thread I made last week about where Gamma Orionis is located.


However, there have been numerous hints throughout the series that accurately places Cardassian space right where it is: On the south-western portion of Federation territory.
"My frozen dairy-based confectionery attracts all the males of the species to the facilities. They all agree on it's superiority. Indeed, it is superior to yours. I could teach you the finer details but that would require monetary recompense on your part."
-The Milkshake Song: Vulcan Edition
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12
# 8
07-06-2012, 11:34 AM
You're forgetting that the map represents a 3D world. Think of the map of the world (Earth) - there's this riddle:
You go out of your cabin, go half a mile to one direction, turn 90 degrees to the left, go another half-mile, turn left again and go another half-mile and end up at your cabin. You go in, drink tea and suddenly you see a bear in the window - what color is the bear? ** stop here and try to solve it just for fun **

So, the bear must be white, because you only turned left twice (e.g., you did a U shape) and not 3 times (which would make a full square) - so you must be at one of the poles - south->east/west->north would work for the north pole while north->east/west->south would work for the south pole.

Same way here - the 2D representation can be weird in some ways - the Orelious Sector could easily be "below" federation space, while the cardasian territory, as well as the neutral zone , could have a sausage shape. Similar explanation goes for the Romulan-Klingon border. Sectors are 3D bent cubes, so nothing says the border must look like a continuous 1D line on the map, or that it has to go through the whole above-below third axis the same way.

As a side-note, if you live on a donut-shaped surface (unlike the sphere-shaped one), then if you go "up" on the map you'd eventually find yourself down again. Just like on earth - you go to the right (East) on the map, you'll eventually end up making a full circle and popping out of the left-side of the map (which is why the "western world" is to the east of the US, whereas the "far east" is to the west of it). So, again, old games like pacman are actually modeled using a donut-shaped world instead of a sphere-shaped one.

LLAP
~-~-~ =/\= ~-~-~
~-Wolf-de-Lyon-~
~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~

Last edited by wolfdelyon; 07-06-2012 at 11:37 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 453
# 9
07-06-2012, 11:42 AM
The galaxy is still relatively flat though, so it's better to make a 2D map that shows the expansion of territories along the X and Y axis instead of also showing the Z axis of the Milky Way Galaxy.
"My frozen dairy-based confectionery attracts all the males of the species to the facilities. They all agree on it's superiority. Indeed, it is superior to yours. I could teach you the finer details but that would require monetary recompense on your part."
-The Milkshake Song: Vulcan Edition
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,539
# 10
07-06-2012, 12:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cusashorn View Post
The galaxy is still relatively flat though, so it's better to make a 2D map that shows the expansion of territories along the X and Y axis instead of also showing the Z axis of the Milky Way Galaxy.
Flat and also sparse - despite how many inhabited systems Star Trek shows, there's relatively few places where one's above another at the same point on the galactic plane because many systems are empty. Not entirely realistic, but with some fuzzy borders it makes things easier to represent in the simplistic infographic style they usually showed on viewscreens.


Anyway, cusashorn's links show some of the maps. Here's a link to the larger version from the same book, showing both quadrants.

But even from the shows, Cardassia is in the Alpha Quadrant, the Klingon and Romulan Empires are in the Beta Quadrant, and the Federation spans both. The maps shown on Cardassian screens in DS9 only showed a Federation border, with most of the war zone being in Federation space.

The dialog doesn't add up, though. It has everyone sharing a border with everyone else somewhere. The writing through the Dominion War was frequently quite good, but the writers also abandoned any idea of knowing where things were in relation to each other. After all, the allies called themselves the Alpha Quadrant, despite the fact that doing so would be like the Allies in WWII calling themselves Africa because one of them had colonies there.
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