Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,660
# 1 Unrealistic Space
08-10-2012, 03:25 AM
Space is a very cool thing. It is mostly a Vaccum apart from when it isn't. Now when I look into space on my telescope I can sometimes see Stars, depending on how awful the weather is here in the Uk. One thing is I don't see nebulae scattered every were. Planets are iluminated by the fact there is a star, and so are nubulae, not usally beacuse nebulae iluminate themselves. eg, the gas it self doesn't, the stars inside / outside do. So why does STO have soooo many nebulaes, and why cannot we see the (more or less) real nebulae, like the Hour Glass Nebula. Anyway as well as that, in this pvp map, craked planetiod, the whole planet is in on nebula, surrounded by perhaps the same on, it it fully iluminated. In Cannon, we don't see much on that or hardly very many neublae were ever we go. It just seems EVERYWHERE seems to have them, in Khitomer Accord, Infected space, deepspace encounters etc . I must say, Vulcan, Cure, Earth space dock, and a few other places which don't have them are more realistic and feel more startrek. I am not saying get rid of evreything beacuse , duh, there are others, but there are too many[/i] So, what is your opinion? Thanks for your time.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,169
# 2
08-10-2012, 03:43 AM
It's a game and they are there for artistic beauty that's all. Emission Nebulae do in fact glow as they are heated by the stars around them, reflection nebulae as the name suggests tends to reflect starlight. I sympathise with your UK weather plight, I too am in the UK and hardly ever get the 6inch refractor out. Also if some of the systems are inside nebulae then it's possible this is indeed what the sky would look like. Whilst we are on the subject I would like to see other real space monsters in the game such as black holes, the ability to explore our own solar system etc.

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Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4
# 3
08-10-2012, 03:51 AM
I agree, nebula look way too bright and are too colofull.
Some maps look really ugly.
And we don't even speak of inconsistent light without any sun, unrealistic too bright glow, background slowing down computer, etc
As if space map creation was a random process

Devs have a lot of work to do to increase... I mean correct the space map quality
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 961
# 4
08-12-2012, 09:23 AM
See, the problem with this is that the truly "dark" space you desire looks very, well, empty and rather desolate, and doesn't fit in Star Trek's vision of the universe, which is teeming with life, activity, and infinite discovery. And when space looks like a lonely void with slow light and barely visible stars, it doesn't look like that.

Now, that's a personal sentiment, but one I believe the creatives at Cryptic share. Nebulas may not have covered the sky in the TV series or movies (Abrams-trek aside), but they constantly flew past visual phenomena.

And don't forget, most pictures of space that we have are in false color, which means most people's "vision" of space is already arguably fictionalized.

If there's any consolation, you can turn off Sector Space's nav layover, which, while not quite blacking out the stars, makes them less prominent. It's the same in the exploration clusters as well. Your lonely void is out there, but in the margins.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,918
# 5
08-12-2012, 07:06 PM
Well it is a fictional universe, and what you see is supported by the Star Trek story. Sector view which is subspace is not representative of where everything is in sidereal space, none of the stars are where they are supposed to be fictional or otherwise.
A few nebulae and stellar phenomena would be interesting eye candy, but unless there some associated mission involved what would it bring to the game other that scenery?
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 471
# 6
08-12-2012, 07:44 PM
I thought there was a lot to look at out there. Gas and dust is pretty common stuff after all even in a vacuum. So what if they use false color to represent them? Most nebulae emit or reflect light in colors we cannot see otherwise.

Still I figured that sector space has so many nebulae because it is a representation of warp space so everything we see in sector space is compressed.
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They taste the same.
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,036
# 7
08-15-2012, 08:55 AM
The fact is, black space, with a few visible stars, is rather boring.
Nebulae, asteroids, planets, etc. are added to maps for many reasons. They could be there because that's what that system is shown as in the show, or described as containing. However, yes, most of the time, those things are added as visual interest, to keep the background from being quite so dull. They can also serve as reference for motion.

Now, just because we don't want ALL of our maps to be black space with stars doesn't mean that more couldn't be. I wholeheartedly agree that the early work on STO involved way too many nebulae and other space effects. I would prefer to return to more 'realistic' space as we move forward. However there are plenty of instances from the show of non-black space, and plenty of times in the game where something will necessitate nebulae and the like.

As for lighting, it drives me nuts when there is a light coming from nowhere. However, it is well established canon as the enterprise was nearly always lit, and you rarely, saw a nearby star. Still, I prefer to make sure that any maps I make, do have a visibly significant star in them, that can be plausibly lighting the map/players.

I'm sure some of you have heard my sun rant before, but suffice it to say that I have tried to introduce some more realism to space maps through the use of more proper suns (yes, with lens flare), fewer nebulae, and making planets feel larger by putting them into the background (like was done for UPS). The last point means that you won't be able to approach the planet. It will always appear to be the same distance from you no matter where you go in the map, but it does give them a much more significant feel than in game geometry does. This won't be done for all planets, but when/where it makes sense.

Lt. Miller has picked up on my approaches to space, and has been following suit for some of his work on S7 already, so you'll be seeing this trend continue into the new sector, as well as a couple other places that we hope to get out to you at some point. . .

I can't say that space will be a perfect recreation of the reality, especially as artistic license does need to be taken in some cases, but we will endeavor to bring future space maps more in line with realism than previously.

ETA: As for performance, space in our game, even with nebulae etc. is very empty. There is little that will have much of an impact on your system's performance compared to say, ESD. That's not to say never, and there are instances where, when something breaks (like the recent white blobs) they do take a toll, but for the most part, space is not very performance intensive.
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Tacofangs, what is your beef with where's Sulu?
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,724
# 8
08-15-2012, 08:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tacofangs View Post
(like the recent white blobs)
Speaking of those white blobs, do you know what the plans are to do with them?
Was named Trek17, but still an author.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 876
# 9
08-15-2012, 09:16 AM
Glad to hear we are going to get more variety in space maps. Something that I felt would be cool, but I don't know if its possible, but what about some real NASA, or NASA inspired backgrounds. Hubble has brought us some amazing images, and something familiar but space derived might be cool. Or even using nebula that are well known, like the Horse Head Nebula.

Trek21, in another thread He mentioned that the white blobs are being fixed as in removed.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 891
# 10
08-15-2012, 10:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tacofangs View Post
The fact is, black space, with a few visible stars, is rather boring.
Nebulae, asteroids, planets, etc. are added to maps for many reasons. They could be there because that's what that system is shown as in the show, or described as containing. However, yes, most of the time, those things are added as visual interest, to keep the background from being quite so dull. They can also serve as reference for motion.

Now, just because we don't want ALL of our maps to be black space with stars doesn't mean that more couldn't be. I wholeheartedly agree that the early work on STO involved way too many nebulae and other space effects. I would prefer to return to more 'realistic' space as we move forward. However there are plenty of instances from the show of non-black space, and plenty of times in the game where something will necessitate nebulae and the like.

As for lighting, it drives me nuts when there is a light coming from nowhere. However, it is well established canon as the enterprise was nearly always lit, and you rarely, saw a nearby star. Still, I prefer to make sure that any maps I make, do have a visibly significant star in them, that can be plausibly lighting the map/players.

I'm sure some of you have heard my sun rant before, but suffice it to say that I have tried to introduce some more realism to space maps through the use of more proper suns (yes, with lens flare), fewer nebulae, and making planets feel larger by putting them into the background (like was done for UPS). The last point means that you won't be able to approach the planet. It will always appear to be the same distance from you no matter where you go in the map, but it does give them a much more significant feel than in game geometry does. This won't be done for all planets, but when/where it makes sense.

Lt. Miller has picked up on my approaches to space, and has been following suit for some of his work on S7 already, so you'll be seeing this trend continue into the new sector, as well as a couple other places that we hope to get out to you at some point. . .

I can't say that space will be a perfect recreation of the reality, especially as artistic license does need to be taken in some cases, but we will endeavor to bring future space maps more in line with realism than previously.

ETA: As for performance, space in our game, even with nebulae etc. is very empty. There is little that will have much of an impact on your system's performance compared to say, ESD. That's not to say never, and there are instances where, when something breaks (like the recent white blobs) they do take a toll, but for the most part, space is not very performance intensive.
Thats all great and all. Thanks. The real question I have is when are they going to put your splash and drip effects back into the SFA ponds?
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