Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,053
Sorry to have to make this thread, but it seems official. Whatever updates are being made to the Foundry are ignoring our obvious requests, just as assets to the foundry are ignoring our obvious asset requests.

Example: We've been asking for ages for some kind of costume to give to dialogues, like a simple generic Federation logo when interacting with a computer. Now, we are given default "Talk to X" when attempting to disguise it. Want to scan the ship. Now, you need to "Talk to Ship."

That is really all we've been asking for, to interact with a console and have something console like appear as the dialogue. This update makes that even more difficult. What gives?

I'm really starting to feel like all of our feedback takes a backseat to:

A. Whatever some mysterious foundry team develops that might one day be compatible with STO.

and:

B. The personal whims of someone who does not listen to our requests.

I don't mean to sound negative, but I'm not sure that anyone is listening here. For X sake, give us the ability to use a generic costume for a dialogue with a computer console. That is all we've been asking for, not some crazy talk to object stuff. Just give us a costume with a federation logo. That is all that we need.

Just a way to talk to a console and have it be a console, not some BO or npc. Why is that so hard to understand.

Ex: I want to use my tricorder. I don't need my BO to translate it for me.

I want to interact with a computer and have it talk to me as a computer.

Why is this so hard, if all that I need is a generic costume to attach to dialogues?

Last edited by kirksplat; 08-12-2012 at 08:05 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,510
# 2
08-13-2012, 12:53 AM
There's a default interact with detail object. It's in the same spot as the default chatbox for an npc contact.

Having a nice costume or using that in an objective would be nice though.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,857
# 3
08-13-2012, 08:43 AM
I definitely understand Kirkfat's mounting frustration here. We have posted numerous threads here asking for assets and maps, and when we get new assets and maps, they are largely things nobody asked for. I know of no thread asking for the glass displays or banners from Utopia Planitia. They are cool, and I've already put one in a map in a published mission, but why put in those, that nobody asked for, and not put in props from the TOS maps, which many people have asked for? Along those lines, why do we not have Starfleet Academy? Why do we not have the First City? Why do we not have carpets? Why do we not have a Starfleet captain's chair. I could go on an on.

The answer, I would guess, is that dev time is not being put into making these available for us. Didn't Zero say in the interview on Primetime UGC that it takes something like 4 hours of dev time per map? I would assume it takes some dev time to hook up assets as well. For whatever reason, it seems that devs are not being tasked to do these things. I would hope that maybe Zero will let us in on the reason.

I don't want to be negative either, so I am offering a constructive solution. If, perhaps, the reason dev time is not being spent here is that the Foundry doesn't directly bring in any cash, maybe it is time to start monetizing some parts of the Foundry. I have been resistant to this, but I think there are some unobtrusive ways Cryptic can start making a little cash off the Foundry.

A) Costumes. We LOVE costumes, so make it so that when you purchase a c-store or lobi-crystal costume, it becomes available for you to use in the Foundry. Yes, this would require devs to spend time hooking up costumes in the Foundry, but Cryptic would be making some return off that time investment. I would also hope these would be retroactive for those of us who have made the purchases already.

This should also include ship costumes and the new EVA Suits. I can tell you that I would buy those suits right freakin' now if it meant I could have NPCs wear them in the Foundry.

B) Allow Foundry slot purchases with C-Points in addition to Dilithium. This should be a no-brainer.

C) Put together some map packs from the unused maps and offer them for fairly cheap. Offer a Romulan-themed map pack with more maps from the Featured Episodes, or a Klingon-themed pack with the new First City and the Alpha space map. I'd buy those.

D) Offer a Tholian Pack. Buy the pack, and you can use the ships, ground mobs and the Nukara maps.

The key, in my opinion, is to make sure not to make things more restrictive for people who already use the Foundry, just add new things for those who are willing to put down a little cash. If the money is coming in, you can afford to spend the time improving the Foundry, right?
The Foundry Roundtable live Wednesdays at 7:30PM EST/4:30PM PST on twitch.tv/thefoundryroundtable
Forum Logic dictates that if the devs don't do what a poster wants, they therefor actively hate what that poster is advocating for.
Forum Logic =/= Real Logic
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 115
# 4
08-13-2012, 10:40 AM
I've been thinking about this since the new asset list was put out and I've been wondering if the issue is not technical or a lack of dev time, but legal.

We know Cryptic has to go through CBS for a lot of stuff, which is why some ships are not in the game or are only available through lock boxes. Could be possible that Cryptic is restricted from giving us access to certain assets due to either their licence with CBS or someone else.

Sounds strange yes, but when you consider what's in the foundry and what's not is there any other logical reason? Would really like a dev to respond to how things are actually added to Foundry.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 36
# 5
08-13-2012, 12:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicochavez View Post
I've been thinking about this since the new asset list was put out and I've been wondering if the issue is not technical or a lack of dev time, but legal.

We know Cryptic has to go through CBS for a lot of stuff, which is why some ships are not in the game or are only available through lock boxes. Could be possible that Cryptic is restricted from giving us access to certain assets due to either their licence with CBS or someone else.

Sounds strange yes, but when you consider what's in the foundry and what's not is there any other logical reason? Would really like a dev to respond to how things are actually added to Foundry.
Note: To Moderator, I am simply answering this question. This is not a guide or meant to be a guide to hack STO. It is simple truth of how MMOs work. Thank you for taking the time to read.

I am not a dev for STO obviously, but I am a programmer and understand how this works. Or should I say how it is supposed to work. Back when I was 16, I made a massive mod using the game GTA SA, I now work for a large software company. At this point I must say that GTA is not an MMO so it wasn't patched on a weekly basis or played online so players were able to edited it using a simple script and nothing else. This action was frowned upon by the owners of the game but never enforced. Hacking any MMO will get you banned.

All MMOs work the the same way, you have all the assets inside the hogg files. These are huge files on your HD if you look. When a new ship or character comes out the devs add this to the hogg files in the next patch. Your client only accesses what is needed while you play the game. The server returns the object number of an asset and its location in the game. This code is either raw or encoded text.

The Foundry is a great GUI for making a script which fed back to the server and stored for use by other players. When some one accesses your community mission they get the script that tells your client to display the assets you were allowed to add through the Foundry GUI. Without the GUI you would need to know the asset object number and map coordinates. No such GUI editor existed for GTA so it was similar to programming in machine code known as ASM.

So I imagine adding any asset to Foundry is simply granting us access to the asset.

Legally I cannot speak for CBS or Cryptic or PWE, but in the past many celebrities have sued or tried to sue game and software companies for their image being used in a game. I posted the links before. I don't believe this to be a CBS restriction at all, how can you sue about an asset that is already in use in the game? As far as I know, the only restriction is actor likeness and not ship likeness.

Understanding this you can now see why Kirksplat is a tad bit upset. I thank Cryptic for the ability to use and enjoy playing STO. I thank them for the Foundry GUI because it saves the headache of learning a new scripting language. But it defines mixed emotions when it comes to giving us a crippled editor.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,857
# 6
08-13-2012, 12:57 PM
I also think this is not likely to be a legal issue. I suspect that the reason we don't have certain assets or maps is that no one has sat down and hooked them up yet. Why this hasn't been done, I can only speculate...
The Foundry Roundtable live Wednesdays at 7:30PM EST/4:30PM PST on twitch.tv/thefoundryroundtable
Forum Logic dictates that if the devs don't do what a poster wants, they therefor actively hate what that poster is advocating for.
Forum Logic =/= Real Logic
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 115
# 7
08-13-2012, 04:11 PM
@Sameriker: You make a good point, though I'm thinking more along the lines of limited use licenses. Remember Cryptic is the second company in on this game, could some of the assets used be from the original developers and that is causing issues? Have they used 3rd party companies as a source for some material? From what I understand the Foundry didn't exist for a while after STO opened, maybe they wouldn't want to change some old contracts?

Even if they're in the game we still have restrictions, like the before mentioned Lock Box ships that can be in the game but CANNOT be straight sold.

If we dismiss legal reasons, then only thing left is technical (I'm ignoring the theory that Cryptic doesn't want us to make better missions then them).

Considering they're just announcing patrols for Foundry mission NPCs now, is it possible the older assets we dont have just wont WORK in the Foundry, and its not just a case of linking the HOGG files to it?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 423
# 8
08-13-2012, 04:52 PM
i generally agree with the title of this thread good job op
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,053
# 9
08-13-2012, 04:54 PM
Guys, there are no legal issues, unless maybe we're talking about brand new assets like a species, ship, or something that CBS has to approve. We've been asking for a transporter pad for a year and a half. That's not exactly an asset that is hard to come by in STO.

It really comes down to a few things. There was a huge vacuum of talent when the original Foundry team moved to NWN. Then the conversion to F2P went in overdrive. Now that we have people on the Foundry (on the STO team) again, they are prioritizing other types of improvements.

And, in my opinion, the "less is more" attitude of our producer is a double-edged sword. On the one hand, she is right that giving us too much might hinder creativity. But, when the requests are very basic, like a transporter, a ceiling, and walls, it's hard to understand.

Last edited by kirksplat; 08-13-2012 at 05:04 PM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 36
# 10
08-13-2012, 05:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicochavez View Post
Considering they're just announcing patrols for Foundry mission NPCs now, is it possible the older assets we dont have just wont WORK in the Foundry, and its not just a case of linking the HOGG files to it?
No, as I said this is a library of 3D models, animations, and their textures already installed on your hard drive. Nothing you see in the game comes directly from the server except the patches.

If a developer of the Foundry wanted to give us access to a teleporter pad as requested they could or would look the model ID number up in the server database. Add that number and possible description to the next Foundry patch. Adding numbers on a list is not hard at all.

As for license Atari gave it up, and as far as I know, CBS owns the rights to Star Trek, PWE owns Cryptic Studios, and Cryptic Studios has been given the rights to use Star Trek logos and such, as long as they don't step on any toes. The gaming industry attracts a lot of lawsuits because of the millions of dollars they generate in revenues. This has nothing to do with anything legal or otherwise.

My best guess is someone high up is throttling the Foundry so we can't possibly make better missions. This might sound paranoid, but Foundry missions don't generate revenue for the game makers. If players stop playing the game missions, they might not purchase items at the item malls. Who needs a bigger better ship if the missions don't require it?

On a personal note, I stopped playing when both my Fed and KDF hit 50. I seldom actually "play" the game. But as I said earlier, I love modding games and this is the only MMO online I know of that allows this activity.
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