Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,244
I recently saw First Contact on cable and over the couple weeks I thought about the movie.

As we know...it starts off with the Borg attacking Earth. Picard was informed but order to stay away because of his past. He disobeys orders and sets course to join the assault on the cube.

With his knowledge of the Borg he helps turn the side, but as the cube is blowing up a sphere is launched. The sphere creates a vortex for which they can go back in time. As they were in the vortex time changed around them, earth was assimilated.

The Enterprise E foiled the Borg plans and saved the future.

Thanks to Voyager and Enterprise we know there are Federation time ships that patrol all over time and space.

My first curiosity is why wouldn't the Federation time police be patrolling and stop the Borg there? I mean First Contact is probably one of the most if not most important things to happen in Earths history. Wouldn't the time police be making sure someone doesn't alter it? Or if nothing else clean up the Borg in arctic?

My other curiosity is if the Borg have time travel...why haven't they used it in the past? There are so many things they could of done with it beyond a simple last ditch effort to assimilate Earth.

We can maybe assume perhaps the Federation time patrol prevents such things from happening, so why didn't they protect one of the biggest events in Earth's history?

Last thing, if the Borg don't try time travel to change things in their favor why don't they?

Even if they didn't use it to change the Alpha Quadrant they could use it in The Delta Quadrant. They could share tactics, locations, and tech with their past.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,100
# 2
08-12-2012, 08:43 PM
Unnofficial Law of Trekdom #435: "Anything, be it arguments or plot holes, that could be solved or need to be solved by Temporal Investigations is to be ignored for the sake of the sanity of all parties involved."



But to answer your question seriously, when the Borg caused the "Assimilated Earth" that we see while the Enterprise travels to the past, they unmade the Federation, as well as Temporal Investigations. The Enterprise was the only thing protected by the "Time Travel Wave" that Data mentions, Temporal Investigations wasn't. Thusly the Enterprise was the only thing that could save the future. I'm fairly certain they learned about it, but decided to stay out of it once they did, out of fear of screwing it up, and the fact that Picard succeed anyway.

'Tis my theory anyway.
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Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,231
# 3
08-12-2012, 08:43 PM
If I learned anything from 'Back to the Future', it is that everything has already happened. At the start of the movie it looks like they are changing time, and at the end of the movie everything happened the way it should.

So there is no reason to police this event, because everything has already happened.

If the Borg wanted to change time, they should travel back into the future in the Delta Quadrant, and then travel to Earth .... 5 minute movie
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Career Officer
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# 4
08-13-2012, 08:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkstocbr View Post
If I learned anything from 'Back to the Future', it is that everything has already happened. At the start of the movie it looks like they are changing time, and at the end of the movie everything happened the way it should.

So there is no reason to police this event, because everything has already happened.

If the Borg wanted to change time, they should travel back into the future in the Delta Quadrant, and then travel to Earth .... 5 minute movie
It didn't really work like that in BTTF. There were two distinct timelines. We clearly saw the one where Marty McFly's dad was a failure and his mum had a drink problem. That happened - Marty's time travelling, basically, created a new timeline.

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# 5
08-13-2012, 05:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by reyan01 View Post
It didn't really work like that in BTTF. There were two distinct timelines. We clearly saw the one where Marty McFly's dad was a failure and his mum had a drink problem. That happened - Marty's time travelling, basically, created a new timeline.
But at the end of the movie everything was back to normal, so it's ok
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# 6
08-13-2012, 06:32 PM
Well, as to why the Temporal Integrity Commitee (or whatever it's named by the 31st, 40th or 72nd century) didn't intervene, there's a number of possibilities.

One is that the timeguys got wiped out when the future changed. I don't buy that. No offense, but what good is a temporal observatory if it blinks out of existence in exactly the scenario it was supposed to identify. The Enterprise was shielded from the effects of the changes to the timeline by the temporal wake, there's really no reason future timeships or at least the TIC's headquarters wouldn't be protected from such changes also. (We do know from Year of Hell 24th century shields can be reconfigured to do a passable job. That said we know from En... En... that other show by the 31st century timecop central was wiped out by changes to a timeline made by one of their own agents. Who himself did not disappear. So, meh.)

My preferred theory is that the future didn't intervene, cause the future already knew the Enterprise had it covered. Either because their temporal observatories told them so, or simply because at some point prior to the Federation learning of the Borg, they'd already found debris of the ship in the system (or Antarctica). When the Federation did learn of the Borg, they might've made a link. Someone at the Department of Temporal Investigations made a note of it. And when the alarm bells went off and the Borg went back, the timecops ordered donuts cause this one was already on file as taken care of.

And then there's the possibility that with the Enterprise going back right along with the Borg cube, and being there from the get-go, it reduced the scope of the changes to the timeline to the point where it just didn't make a big enough blip on the charts to be worth their time. Not when somehow poor old Porthos VIII got beamed to feudal Vulcan, resulting in a new timeline where Vulcans and Romulans put their differences aside before they even began, so they could march under their new god's floppy banners to conquer the entire galaxy in order to process the subjugated populations into kibble for its crossbed and ravenous Beagle-Sehlat descendants, and Surak is remembered only for his deathmetal band.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KobayashImaru
Now, the real question that will cause your brain to explode is why Temporal Investigations did nothing in ST2009.
Maybe they know something we don't know, about what kind of changes or phenomena alter a timeline, and what kind of changes create new ones. Or maybe Trek has always been horribly inconsistent in its time travel theory.

Me, I think each time travel event creating an alternate timeline is the likeliest, should time travel even be possible, as its paradox free. (It also, I'm afraid, makes going back and killing Hitler rather pointless. The original timeline will continue to exist, even if you progress into a new one.) But frankly, I don't find the idea of an alternate timeline being created to be very comforting, from a denizen of the universe point of view. Sure, it saves you from blinking out of existence in favor of the greater Pterodactyl empire, but who says one timeline creating one spinoff is where it stops? Beyond just the mirror universe, we saw hundreds of alternate timelines existing in The Next Generation. Each one with their own grief-addled mad scientists waiting for a chance to go back and set things right. Which is a bad thing, trust me, cause while mathematics may be perfectly happy with the concept, physicists know there is no such thing as infinite anything. Why we should assume time is any different, is beyond me. And if it's possible to travel back in time, then the state of the past is recorded on time somehow, or else there'd be nowhere to go to, and that means we can't just recycle yesterday. (And there's no Langoliers.) So even if there's an enormeous redundancy of future time, with every doubling of the number of timelines, the amount of future for each timeline halves. The entire universe could crash tomorrow cause some basement-dwelling savant went back fifteen times to try different ways of asking Polly to the dance, each time creating an alternate timeline where again he goes back fifteen times to try out the same fifteen lines, over and over and over again until the universe fills up with trillions upon trillions of useless near identical timelines and no room left for the day after tomorrow.

I say we send a fleet back there and figure out how to trash the whole thing. They're takin' our time!

But anyway, inconsistent, convenience-driven writing. Nothing mindblowing there.
Reave

Last edited by hrisvalar; 08-13-2012 at 06:40 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,537
# 7
08-12-2012, 08:47 PM
About the 'time police' not stopping the Borg when the Enterprise went back in time, is because it already HAD happened, and thus to stop it, would in fact be a change in the timeline.

Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,832
# 8
08-13-2012, 08:06 AM
It is one of the predestination paradoxes where everything that happens is always meant to happen and history is just fulfilling itself.

but dont analyse it too much. Time travel has plot holes galore and almost any time travel story can be picked apart if you really look at it. the borg themselves were made far too poweful in voyager in terms of numbers with thousands of ships yet they only ever send 1 single cube every time. a dozen would probably be strong enough to crush the entire alpha quadrant but they dont do it. at least in tng you could believe they only had a handful roaming the galaxy.

whats even stranger is they bypass everything else (including the romulans) to head straight to earth yet they have a transwarp conduit that opens up right on earths doorstep for a sneak attack.

borg tactics are pretty terrible.

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# 9
08-13-2012, 08:12 AM
I've usually found it easier to just regard the 'current' actions of the crew to be what mattered, as if they existed in a temporal bubble of choice all the time. Their actions in the moment decided the future, and until they decided on something, everything in the future was uncertain, or consigned to exist only in parallel timelines. I sleep soundly at night.
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Last edited by nynik; 08-14-2012 at 08:25 PM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 10
08-13-2012, 08:43 AM
Gary Seven would not allow it
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