Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 453
I don't PVP. I hate doing it and just enjoy playing against the NPCs in this game.

But something has me curious. I don't know if that's actually the case, but I tend to notice here on the forums that whenever anyone is discussing gameplay balance whenever a skill gets nerfed or a new ship is introduced, I get the feeling that they're only specifically talking about how those changes stack up to other skills and other ships in PVP only.


Am I kind of in the ballpark here? I dont' really see why there would be any need to discuss how well the Regeant class Assault Cruiser holds up to other vessels in the game if that wasn't the case, because all ships are suppose to have a defining trait, no matter how offset the gameplay might be because of it.
"My frozen dairy-based confectionery attracts all the males of the species to the facilities. They all agree on it's superiority. Indeed, it is superior to yours. I could teach you the finer details but that would require monetary recompense on your part."
-The Milkshake Song: Vulcan Edition
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 312
# 2
08-17-2012, 10:43 AM
Seems that way. I still get made fun of my build because it would so called stick in PVP. I don't do PVP so I set up my ship for what I want which is PVE.

If someone asks a question about a set for PVE. Please don't answer telling them they should only set it up for PVP.

Kyle
Delta Fleet Command
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 3
08-17-2012, 10:45 AM
Golden rule

YOUR SET UP IS YOUR BUSINESS

Silver Rule

PVP is less than 5% of the game

Bronze Rule

A ship speced perfectly for PVP will SUCK in some missions
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 103
# 4
08-17-2012, 05:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
Golden rule

YOUR SET UP IS YOUR BUSINESS

Silver Rule

PVP is less than 5% of the game

Bronze Rule

A ship speced perfectly for PVP will SUCK in some missions
That Bronze rule applies to most MMOs but not to STO. a PvP specwill wreck PvE content in this game.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 951
# 5
08-17-2012, 05:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lpthomasmarik View Post
That Bronze rule applies to most MMOs but not to STO. a PvP specwill wreck PvE content in this game.
I'd say it's somewhere in between sucking and wrecking. A PvP build will be sufficient for PvE, but it definitely is not ideal. I've recently changed from a PvE setup to a PvP setup and had to change many things, including weapons, Boff abilities, and even active space Doffs.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,471
# 6
08-17-2012, 05:57 PM
Its a bit of a ludic fallacy. PVP can not be balanced. By its nature there are infinite unknowns that can not be reduced to pure statistical analysis in determining the probability of an event taking place - and thus assuring it can occur in a balanced way all the time. Trying to balance PVE through PVP is just as bizarre.
nynik | Join Date: Dec 2009
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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 471
# 7
08-17-2012, 06:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skurf View Post
I'd say it's somewhere in between sucking and wrecking. A PvP build will be sufficient for PvE, but it definitely is not ideal. I've recently changed from a PvE setup to a PvP setup and had to change many things, including weapons, Boff abilities, and even active space Doffs.
Dunno I main a pure PvP built tac/Garumba tourney, (as in no +1 consoles at all, though I do run a Red Matter Capasitor), set up right now right now and I've been face melting PvE. Considering how the game is built around DPS and heals it is not a surprise to me that a tac/escort has a high degree of mission flexibility.

Earlier today I PuGged a Starbase Defense. Two warped out right at the beginning one was an AKF hero that left a Bortasqu and myself. We were stubborn and managed to get to wave four before we lost the base. That Bortasqu was good. Kept the base healed at the expense of their self more than once.

Still I was thinking about setting up a slightly more PvE build with a swappable BO set up for one more CSV and no CRF...

Edited to get a touch more on topic:

I made a post in another thread that pointed out one of the reasons that under the current mechanics PvP is the best tool to judge balance by. It was in a thread about how the new Metreon Gas dispenser is underwhelming.

The reality is that to give a degree of challenge to PvE the NPC's hit points and damage has to be super charged as the AI that controls them does not chose or time buffs and heals all that well. So you get NPCs with ludicrous hit point values and very high damage output values.

In the case of the metreon gas trick the new console fails to look all that impressive in PvE because the NPC hull goes down just a tiny fraction. Yet when you see a Regent with full hull and a down shield facing drop to 30% hull due to that console when it gets stuck in it's own metreon fart it is very effective against ships like BoPs, Science vessels, and even escorts that are piloted by players. Very effective as in coup de gr?ce effective.
If you are a pickle in a pickle jar you know every pickle's different, sort of, but really they're all just pickles...
They taste the same.

Last edited by piwright42; 08-17-2012 at 06:44 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,416
# 8
08-17-2012, 10:49 AM
When it comes to PvP and balance, for years I've advocated that Cryptic adopt a 2-value system (one for PvP and one for PvE), just like Everquest had for it's PvP. That way you can adjust PvE, but not affect PvP, and vice versa. And I honestly would like them to reconsider this, because as it is now, it's going to be a major difficult task in finding that sweet spot where it's okay for both sides.

Though many people whom I knew that were hardcore PvPers are stopping not solely because of the no new maps, but because STO's PvP has gotten to ridiculous levels with ability spam or fancy weapons like these Phased Tetryon or Spiral Disruptors. It really shows that the game is becoming "Pay to Win" (when it comes to PVP that is).


Now when it comes to ship balance, well its up to us to determine that. But the way the game's changing, it looks like every slot is going to be filled up. Though it's up to us to really question imbalances as soon as we can. Though I honestly think Cryptic's at their limit with balanced configurations that we likely will start seeing imbalanced configurations. Hopefully not, but you never know.

Last edited by azurianstar; 08-17-2012 at 10:58 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,051
# 9
08-17-2012, 10:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by azurianstar View Post
When it comes to PvP and balance, for years I've advocated that Cryptic adopt a 2-value system (one for PvP and one for PvE), just like Everquest had for it's PvP. That way you can adjust PvE, but not affect PvP, and vice versa. And I honestly would like them to reconsider this, because as it is now, it's going to be a major difficult task in finding that sweet spot where it's okay for both sides.

Though many people whom I knew that were hardcore PvPers are stopping not solely because of the no new maps, but because STO's PvP has gotten to ridiculous levels with ability spam or like these Phased Tetryon or Spiral Disruptor weapons that the games just no longer fun. Because it really is Pay to Win, when it comes to PVP.


Now when it comes to ship balance, well its up to us to determine that. But the way the game's changing, it looks like every slot is going to be filled up. Though it's up to us to really question imbalances as soon as we can. Though I honestly think Cryptic's at their limit and we likely will start seeing imbalanced configurations. Hopefully not, but you never know these days.
I`d like a two-value system as well. Guild Wars had that too. Some skills would even work differently when used in PvP.
Only Internet users deal in absolutes !
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 453
# 10
08-17-2012, 10:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by azurianstar View Post
When it comes to PvP and balance, for years I've advocated that Cryptic adopt a 2-value system (one for PvP and one for PvE), just like Everquest had for it's PvP. That way you can adjust PvE, but not affect PvP, and vice versa. And I honestly would like them to reconsider this, because as it is now, it's going to be a major difficult task in finding that sweet spot where it's okay for both sides.
I remember what the devs did to PVP in EQ2. They actually managed to make things a bit more balanced by scaling back all damage by 33% when PVPing, as well as introduced a mitigation system that ONLY worked in PVP. I thought that was a pretty good change.
"My frozen dairy-based confectionery attracts all the males of the species to the facilities. They all agree on it's superiority. Indeed, it is superior to yours. I could teach you the finer details but that would require monetary recompense on your part."
-The Milkshake Song: Vulcan Edition
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