Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,425
I have a famous Trek character in mind for use in a Foundry mission. It really can't be any other character for the plot I have in mind.

I'd like to point out a couple of things from the EULA FAQ that Branflakes posted and solicit community feedback on a specific case. The EULA states we can use characters but NOT actors likenesses. This was clarified as such in the FAQ:

Quote:
3. Are we allowed to use the character of Dax, with the symbiont in a new host?
Nothing in the EULA prevents this. Please refer to the EULA for a list of "Star Trek Properties."
...
5. Can we mention a person, but not show them? For instance, mention "James T. Kirk did XYZ??"
Nothing in the EULA prevents this. Please refer to the EULA for a list of "Star Trek Properties."
6. I know we cannot portray actors, but what about characters who were in costumes and make-up and you cannot tell who the actor was?
Nothing in the EULA prevents this. Please refer to the EULA for a list of "Star Trek Properties."
7. Could I write a mission in which the player opens a channel and has a long, drawn out conversation with Picard? I would use a costume of a ship to represent him in the popup dialog.
Nothing in the EULA prevents this. Please refer to the EULA for a list of "Star Trek Properties."
So here's the deal.

It's Picard. However, my version is:
- Aged up to 104.
- Has a face obscuring beard.
- Is wearing a VISOR for plot specific reasons.

Here's a screenshot of him as he'd appear:
http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/9...2082601555.jpg

Does that count as full makeup? Or do I need to put him in a Breen suit, with a bit more babble?

I've tried playing with the plot, using other characters. It comes out odd with anyone other than our esteemed former captain and ambassador to Vulcan in the role.

I'd value community opinions on this.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 67
# 2
08-25-2012, 11:45 PM
I would say that the problem is the whole "baldness" thing. Why? That is a specific likeness of Patric Stewart as Picard. I'm sure when they were writing the character they didnt say "hey, we want Picard to be a bald guy", it just turned out they cast Stewart and thats how he looks and they went with it. So if you wanted to reinvtent a new look for that character that would be ok, but by the rules you cant use the likeness of Stewart as Picard. And just to be clear, I'm not saying it bothers me, just answering your question.

PS: if you wanted to make some joke about him wearing a wig or getting implants, that would probably solve the likeness issue.

Last edited by sl1ckm1ster; 08-25-2012 at 11:49 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 844
# 3
08-26-2012, 04:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sl1ckm1ster View Post
I would say that the problem is the whole "baldness" thing. Why? That is a specific likeness of Patric Stewart as Picard. I'm sure when they were writing the character they didnt say "hey, we want Picard to be a bald guy", it just turned out they cast Stewart and thats how he looks and they went with it. So if you wanted to reinvtent a new look for that character that would be ok, but by the rules you cant use the likeness of Stewart as Picard. And just to be clear, I'm not saying it bothers me, just answering your question.

PS: if you wanted to make some joke about him wearing a wig or getting implants, that would probably solve the likeness issue.
I think what you're overlooking is that Patrick Stewart is bald, but not all bald men are Patrick Stewart. If baldness was the only aspect that determined whether a character was a likeness of Patrick Stewart, then we wouldn't be able to use any bald characters at all. And also Stewart would be getting royalties for the last 4 seasons of DS9.


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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,941
# 4
08-26-2012, 04:25 PM
I say go for it.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 67
# 5
08-29-2012, 01:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagorak View Post
I think what you're overlooking is that Patrick Stewart is bald, but not all bald men are Patrick Stewart. If baldness was the only aspect that determined whether a character was a likeness of Patrick Stewart, then we wouldn't be able to use any bald characters at all. And also Stewart would be getting royalties for the last 4 seasons of DS9.
That has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. Of course not all bald men are Patrick Stewart, but if you make the character of Picard and also make him bald then you using Patrick Stewart's likeness.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,425
# 6
08-29-2012, 07:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sl1ckm1ster View Post
That has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. Of course not all bald men are Patrick Stewart, but if you make the character of Picard and also make him bald then you using Patrick Stewart's likeness.
Hrm. I see it as oddly murkier than that. Stewart himself objected to wearing a hair piece in flashbacks and his stand-ins were also bald.

That's why Tom Hardy was bald both as Shinzon and young Picard.

I guess one of my arguments for recasting Picard is that he was played by no fewer than four actors. If there was voiceover, you might go for a Royal Academy of the Dramatic Arts accent, a kind of hyper-enunciated Received Pronunciation accent, with a bit of Yorkshire creeping in when he's angry and a deliberate pronunciation of French words with French traits. THAT would be a likeness and would be inevitable.

I think Stewart's insistence on other actors going bald to play Picard (and frustration with actors who didn't) coupled with the dialogue referencing it tends to bestow an innate baldness to Picard that is no longer incidentally Stewart's likeness creeping through.

Oh...

Here's Stewart's stuntman through Insurrection, BTW.

http://images.wikia.com/memoryalpha/...igh_Ground.jpg
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,696
# 7
08-30-2012, 05:41 AM
One trait, however iconic, does not represent the whole of a likeness. All bald men are not automatically Patrick Stewart lookalikes. A person's likeness also includes the shape of the cheekbones, nose, height and width of eyes, iris color, shape and length of chin, etc, etc. Giving a Foundry character one trait of a canon character does not constitute a EULA violation. If it did, we wouldn't be able to use beards cause of Jonathan Frakes, we wouldn't be able to use visors cause of Lavar Burton, we wouldn't be able to use pointy ears cause of Leonard Nemoy, etc.
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 131
# 8
08-25-2012, 11:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoleviathan99 View Post
It's Picard. However, my version is:
- Aged up to 104.
- Has a face obscuring beard.
- Is wearing a VISOR for plot specific reasons.

Here's a screenshot of him as he'd appear:
http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/9...2082601555.jpg
I'd just like to mention that your screenshot looks EXACTLY how I pictured him in my mind from your description. Nice work.

Man, I need to play more Foundry missions... I'm missing out.
Cryptic, you can put that as a quote on the back of the box.

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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,905
# 9
08-26-2012, 12:39 AM
Be nice if they can go over the EULA once again and fine tune with examples of Do's and Do nots.


From what I understand of past discussion over the Foundry EULA:
  • You cannot show canonical characters.
  • You can "talk" to canonical characters (view screen off, talking via communicators).
  • I'm iffy with canonical starships. At one time we were told all canonical ships are off limits, but in the last couple of months I heard it was okay to put them in. (So not sure what the real legalities are).
(I'm particulary interested given that I'm doing the Foundry misson of the Kor's Klacht D'Kel Brakt mission. So far reference Kor, and sort of put in Klothos in, but not 100% sure. But others put the Enterprises in their missions so I'm not 100% sure with ships).


So with Picard, Lev..........I wouldn't chance it.
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Last edited by azurianstar; 08-26-2012 at 12:42 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,498
# 10
08-26-2012, 12:46 AM
...we need hats in this game.
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