Specialist
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,525
Somebody else mentioned how kinetic damage is broken on torpedoes now and showed tests on how it's killing gobs of crew life but not doing much damage.

This may be related to that, in some way. This one involves the AI firing of torpedoes, though, instead of player-fired.

Lately I've been noticing massive torpedo hull damage, upwards of 20-25% of my Hegh'ta's hull in a single torpedo....

wait for it..

when I have FULL shields up. I don't even lose any shield power. The torps go THROUGH my fully-up shields and take me down to the upper 70's percent range. Forget a spread -- they take me down to upper 50's, low 60's.... Running some shield buff or damage debuff (i.e. EPTS reduces resistance for 10 seconds) seems to affect this. This is also with borg console for hull regen. Running KHG deflector and shields, borg engine and console. No other consoles that would affect hull regen or shields.

Even with a 40% bleedthrough on transphasics this is crazy... That's 6000 hull damage (1/4 of the default 24000)... MORE even, because I have certain skill points that give me more hull! That's AFTER shield bleed! What the frak kind of BS torps are they firing? 6000 hull divided by 40% (6000 is 40%, let's find the full torp damage) is 15,000 damage. If it's NOT transphasics, if these cardassians are using more normal types (they seem to reload fairly quick), we're talking 30,000 freaking BS hull THROUGH full shields!!

The ships firing these are often breen chel cruisers or cardassian galor class cruisers. Not EVERY hit is doing this, but so many in the past couple of days it must have been something with the recent patches. In one fight with 1 cruiser I was still at 99% shields or so (just the smallest damage from beam arrays at the time) and was down to low 70's in a single hit on 3 separate occasions. I watched it come in and witnessed the damage every time. It was definitely the torpedo and not some beam weapon or boff debuff.

Remember... this is going straight THROUGH full shields and impacting full damage to hull.


You have to pick: Are you going to make monolithic super villains, or are you going to make them think and act like real players... Because you CAN'T have it both ways. You ahve to pick and choose, and right now we've got the frakking worst of both worlds.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,587
# 2
08-27-2012, 03:16 PM
npcs have a flat and huge damage modifier because they only come with basically a fore and aft beam and torpedo. as apposed to player ships that can run up to 4 weapons each fore and aft. that flat modifier buffs that 1 or 2 beams the npcs have to act like 4 or 6 player beams, but that modifier is also applied to the torpedo too, so its like each torpedo hits like 3 or 4 player torpedoes. thats the flaw, players don't run 6 to 8 beams and 4 torpedoes at the same time, they run like a single torp, if ever. the torpedoes npcs fire should not get the same modifier the energy weapons do. but npcs basically nead a rebuild from the ground up anyway, that would just be a band aid. currently those torps are only really killer on elite, and their what makes elite a pain in the ass as apposed to hard. getting 1 shot by npcs using THY does not add to the challenge, it just makes it less fun.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,489
# 3
08-27-2012, 03:29 PM
My problem lately is the goofy "Isometric charge" torpedo weapon. It kind of looks like a quantum, but its whiter and crackly, and it can bounce to hit multiple targets. Negh'vars, both KDF and Borg, use this weapon.

I'm using a Recluse carrier. My shield strength is pumped to over 16,000, and I've got 3 layers of Neutronium armor and a layer of Monotanium as well. A single isometric charge can take ALL my shield strength and 60 to 70% of my hull. Less durable ships just explode outright in a single hit.

This is stupid. :|

The basic problem seems to be that this weapon does "electrical" damage, which is not reduced by shields like "kinetic" damage is. So it's an AI super-torpedo with damage rating of tens of thousands that does NOT splatter on your shields like torpedoes are supposed to. Heck I'm not even sure armor has any effect on it. I have over 30% resistance to all energy weapon damage, but "electrical" is not listed.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,241
# 4
08-27-2012, 03:38 PM
Isometric charge isn't a torpedo but thats another story.

You think that's bull?


Wait till you take a single torpedo hit and your 100% shield (14k shield each facing), 60k hull ship (@100%) ship is turned into a cloud of dust.


The combat log shows a massive torpedo hit , NOT A HEAVY TORPEDO, striking for a ludicrous 250 thousand damage.
http://media.tumblr.com/160cacdb395f8340dac90864182ebe16/tumblr_inline_mx9yxhItkb1qg9pkt.jpg
Lieutenant
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 77
# 5
08-27-2012, 03:43 PM
NPC projectile attacks have always done ridiculous damage. As dontdrunk pointed out, this is on account of a lazy coding hack by someone or other. And now developers are stuck trying to work around a cludge that never should have made it out of alpha testing.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 471
# 6
08-27-2012, 03:46 PM
And here I thought it was just me running only on neutronium armor console on my Garumba in Elite STFs.

Even had Brace for Impact on more than once and often I just go BOOM, but the shields are still full up.

LOL fun, (that there be sarcasm).
If you are a pickle in a pickle jar you know every pickle's different, sort of, but really they're all just pickles...
They taste the same.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,587
# 7
08-27-2012, 03:50 PM
a torpedo impact that hits shields immediately loses 3/4 of its damage, and any bleed from it is calculated from that 1/4 thats left (thats why torpedoes are useless in a game were you can distribute shields). if an npc torpedo hit your shield facing and annihilated it, and then dealt significant damage to your hull, it did that with only 1/4 of its power.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,510
# 8
08-27-2012, 03:52 PM
I been on the receiving end of this. When doing the Romulan missions with my Galaxy Class around level 30-40. I got into a couple battles with the large Warbirds. It was like 1 hit shields took hit, then hit 2 was from torpedoes and I was dead. I was like what was that. And it didn't just take a chunk of health, it was instant death. I been hit directly by torpedoes into the hull before and managed to survive. Even the spreads. That happened to me at least 2 times during that story line. So far in the Cardassian/Dominion story line that hadn't happened yet.

I don't know if its a flaw or a issue on some ships. But your not the only one to be killed in a in a torpedo hit.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,329
# 9
08-28-2012, 02:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by momaw View Post
My problem lately is the goofy "Isometric charge" torpedo weapon. It kind of looks like a quantum, but its whiter and crackly, and it can bounce to hit multiple targets. Negh'vars, both KDF and Borg, use this weapon.

I'm using a Recluse carrier. My shield strength is pumped to over 16,000, and I've got 3 layers of Neutronium armor and a layer of Monotanium as well. A single isometric charge can take ALL my shield strength and 60 to 70% of my hull. Less durable ships just explode outright in a single hit.

This is stupid. :|

The basic problem seems to be that this weapon does "electrical" damage, which is not reduced by shields like "kinetic" damage is. So it's an AI super-torpedo with damage rating of tens of thousands that does NOT splatter on your shields like torpedoes are supposed to. Heck I'm not even sure armor has any effect on it. I have over 30% resistance to all energy weapon damage, but "electrical" is not listed.
My problem with this is more that the version we get as players is a pathetic JOKE compared to what they hit us with. Their version is powerful and deadly.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 240
# 10
08-27-2012, 10:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
npcs have a flat and huge damage modifier because they only come with basically a fore and aft beam and torpedo. as apposed to player ships that can run up to 4 weapons each fore and aft. that flat modifier buffs that 1 or 2 beams the npcs have to act like 4 or 6 player beams, but that modifier is also applied to the torpedo too, so its like each torpedo hits like 3 or 4 player torpedoes. thats the flaw, players don't run 6 to 8 beams and 4 torpedoes at the same time, they run like a single torp, if ever. the torpedoes npcs fire should not get the same modifier the energy weapons do. but npcs basically nead a rebuild from the ground up anyway, that would just be a band aid. currently those torps are only really killer on elite, and their what makes elite a pain in the ass as apposed to hard. getting 1 shot by npcs using THY does not add to the challenge, it just makes it less fun.
I have never considered that before. But as someone whose Hegh'ta was nuked by a single 24,500k damage photon torpedo from Elite Donatra and watches single disruptor bolts hit with thousands of shield and hull damage when kiting her...it makes a disturbing amount of sense.

I am of the opinion that the system governing NPCs and their damage calc is no simple fix. Nothing seems to be a simple fix. Everything I have seen in Cryptic's reticence to overhaul aspects of their system makes me think the background code is as needlessly complicated as a Rube Goldberg machine. Figuring out how to retool this might be like unraveling a ball of fishing wire. Q knows when some, if any, sort of retooling might come to pass.

But if this really is the case, then there's something to blame the damage on at least.

The Artist Formerly Known As Nikotaka ][ Join Date: Jan 2010
"Can anyone remember when we used to be explorers...?"

Last edited by nikkyvix; 08-27-2012 at 10:19 PM.
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