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Ensign
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 4
Now here is something some people may not agree with me on, but if it were implemented into the game it would make people learn their character classes, and learn the games mechanics.

What I am proposing is, and has been tried and true on many other games. Some in the same forms, and some even more difficult.

But basically what I am suggesting is that upon death, especially in the higher end areas of the game, ship damage is not a solution, because clearly it is not working. And also an increasing timer for death on missions really is not working either.
So what I am suggesting, is upon character death, whether it is a ground or a space mission, is that there is an exponential experience death penalty. Some people may think this is harsh, but when it really comes down to it, it is not. It is far kinder to everyone else who is suffering at the hands of someone who either does not want to learn their character class, or is a troll and just wants to mess up the mission for everyone, since they seem to have nothing better to do. I am not saying people should be punished for making mistakes, what I am saying is that, if the same mistakes keep being made repeatedly, then perhaps your strategy or play-style needs to be re-evaluated.
For the first couple of deaths only losing a small percentage of experience would be no big deal. But from what I have observed repeated by alot of groups, is that they know on quite a few missions, that hell they really do not need skill so they just blindly rush into a fight to die and keep coming back to slowly whittle away at the nps's. This is NOT a strategy, this is called zerging. And quite honestly it involves no skill at all and, it offers absolutely no incentive for people to learn how to play their characters at all, and become overall a useful member to a team of players.
I do know that if something like this were implemented it would really upset people for awhile, but I know with certainty, that after awhile people would begin to be more careful with their characters and ultimately with EVERYONE's valuable time and play experience.


So, go ahead and start the flame wars about this subject.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 426
# 2
09-11-2012, 06:34 PM
Seems like it would be pretty unfair to escorts. I know how to fly my ship and play within my class, but I still blow up because my ship is apparently made out of shiny glass. Half the enemies in elite STFs can one shot an escort through full shields and hull with survival buffs in place. Some of them even one shot cruisers through full shields and hull.

Besides, it wouldn't work for the end of game content. Most end of game players are level 50. They don't care about experience anymore because they don't need it.

It's a good idea in theory, but it only works if you're actually earning experience. At level 50 with all bridge officers maxed out, the only thing experience/expertise is good for is starbases (and the expertise requirement usually fills up as soon as the project goes live).
Demons run when a good man goes to war.
Ensign
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 4
# 3 Already thought of that...
09-11-2012, 06:45 PM
for example when you are level 50, the Dev's would let us fill up the exp bar. And simply separate the expertise for BO's from the exp bar, pretty much like it is/was.

If you keep dying repeatedly, simply put you de-level.

At that point, you either earn your experience back so you can get to use your lvl 50 ship/gear. or you stay somewhere in lvl 49 based on how many times you have died.

As far as the point of being "fair". My main character is a Tac, I use escorts myself, I know how much glass our ships are made of. But the point of it is that is the sacrifice we make to be a DPS class, so ultimately, it would force us to learn how to modify our skill-sets and try not to be the agro-whores that tactical escorts tend to be.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 77
# 4
09-11-2012, 07:13 PM
good in theory but can be disaterous when put into practice. i used to do another game that had simular requirments on equipment i remember running one dungeon in my favorite gear being a healer and doing my job ended up deleveling 3 levels hense poof armor comes off and there i am a high ago target with my butt hanging in the wind.

let me give an example your doing cge tanking the final boss oops die through lag, bug what ever and poof your mk12 gears pops off what then. "well frack can't tank anymore guys my butts bare someone else has to do it." bang group wipe, not good is it, you get the blame for deleveling entire group because of lag or bug or whatever.

yeah that will go over well.

lol realistically what would happen would be ppl end up not wanting to die so badly that it would be a fail from the start.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 426
# 5
09-11-2012, 07:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by heckyll View Post
for example when you are level 50, the Dev's would let us fill up the exp bar. And simply separate the expertise for BO's from the exp bar, pretty much like it is/was.

If you keep dying repeatedly, simply put you de-level.

At that point, you either earn your experience back so you can get to use your lvl 50 ship/gear. or you stay somewhere in lvl 49 based on how many times you have died.

As far as the point of being "fair". My main character is a Tac, I use escorts myself, I know how much glass our ships are made of. But the point of it is that is the sacrifice we make to be a DPS class, so ultimately, it would force us to learn how to modify our skill-sets and try not to be the agro-whores that tactical escorts tend to be.
So your solution would be to change skill sets so that your skills don't match your class? That doesn't even make sense.
Demons run when a good man goes to war.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 189
# 6
09-11-2012, 08:08 PM
So everyone is just suppose to skip the doomsday episode? And so much for a good day to die and all that.

/notsigned
Ensign
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 4
# 7
09-11-2012, 08:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by velktra View Post
So your solution would be to change skill sets so that your skills don't match your class? That doesn't even make sense.
O.k. not sure how to make it any clearer...But I will try...It is very simple...changing of skill-sets? No, adaptability in knowing how and when to use their classes actions/abilities, hell everyone should already know how and when to do that, but this reinforces my point.


TACTICAL=DPS

ENGINEER=TANK

SCIENCE= HEALER


Very simple... DPS (which is my primary character) simply put could stand to use agro "management". What this means is knowing when to throw out a little dps, or alot based on timing of teamwork, and trying to let an Engineer(tank) if one is available to gain and hold agro, and try not to peel it from the tank. If no Engineer is available, than adjust your play-style accordingly to the situation at hand. Some will say, "we already do this" well if you do and you are successful than you do not need to be told this. This game from the very beginning was never about, "whom ever deals the most dps wins the day", it was always supposed to be about teamwork, and the different skill sets working cohesively together to achieve success.



As far as last post about de-leveling in any of the STF missions is, that is the nature of "Special Task Force" missions they are not meant to be a walk in the park. They were originally meant for people to work as a team, and to work together to achieve success through their skill-sets, not through zerg-work, even if someone else's mistake continues to cost people the missions or worse experience loss. Then people will also learn real quick who not to team up with due to their lack of desire to improve their skills.

Last edited by heckyll; 09-11-2012 at 08:44 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 771
# 8
09-12-2012, 03:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by heckyll View Post
O.k. not sure how to make it any clearer...But I will try...It is very simple...changing of skill-sets? No, adaptability in knowing how and when to use their classes actions/abilities, hell everyone should already know how and when to do that, but this reinforces my point.


TACTICAL=DPS

ENGINEER=TANK

SCIENCE= HEALER
So what about science officers in escorts? Or cruisers? Engineers in escorts or science vessels? Tacticals in cruisers or science vessels?

If you want my Science Officer to try to heal you when I'm in my Defiant retrofit, don't expect much. Or are you saying each career should only fly one type of ship? That would change the game completely, as well as severely limit the options available for people.

Or are you only applying this to ground? I tank Armek all the time on my science officer...should I only let the engineer from now on? What if there isn't one? Should I be restricted to just using my medic kit to heal, and just toss out the other 6 kits I have that aren't all full of heals?

One of the things I love about STO is that there classes don't fall into the arbitrary classifications of tank/healer/dps. Everyone can do a little bit of everything - I remember groups of 5 tac officers doing old version of Infected back when it was a space and ground combined, a lot longer, and a lot harder. They could do this because they came prepared with consumables, and also used Rally Cry for healing. The strategies they used were naturally different from what a more balanced group would use, but it could be done, and I think that's a great thing.
Ainu - Join Date: Aug 2008
Foundry Missions: 1) The Source of Power (ST-HSWUBD5TQ) [Federation] 16+
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Last edited by tangolight; 09-12-2012 at 03:55 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 117
# 9
09-18-2012, 04:33 PM
In space, Sci is not healer - which makes TOTAL sense. I'm getting bored of this misconception as it has made me victim to verbal abuse on many team maps. Did Dr McCoy ever repair the ship? No. Did Spock? No. Who did? Scotty. What is he? An Engineer.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 453
# 10
09-19-2012, 04:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by heckyll View Post
for example when you are level 50, the Dev's would let us fill up the exp bar. And simply separate the expertise for BO's from the exp bar, pretty much like it is/was.

If you keep dying repeatedly, simply put you de-level.

At that point, you either earn your experience back so you can get to use your lvl 50 ship/gear. or you stay somewhere in lvl 49 based on how many times you have died.

As far as the point of being "fair". My main character is a Tac, I use escorts myself, I know how much glass our ships are made of. But the point of it is that is the sacrifice we make to be a DPS class, so ultimately, it would force us to learn how to modify our skill-sets and try not to be the agro-whores that tactical escorts tend to be.
Ahh yes, the old EverQuest death penalty: Loss of XP and your level.


DING! *dies* dammit!
DING! *dies* dammit!
DING! *dies* dammit!
DING! *dies* dammit!
DING! *dies* dammit!
DING! *dies* dammit!
DING! *dies* dammit!
DING! *dies* dammit!

Or in this case:


"CONGRATULATIONS VICE-ADMIRAL!" *dies* dammit!
"CONGRATULATIONS VICE-ADMIRAL!" *dies* dammit!
"CONGRATULATIONS VICE-ADMIRAL!" *dies* dammit!
"CONGRATULATIONS VICE-ADMIRAL!" *dies* dammit!
"CONGRATULATIONS VICE-ADMIRAL!" *dies* dammit!
"CONGRATULATIONS VICE-ADMIRAL!" *dies* dammit!
"My frozen dairy-based confectionery attracts all the males of the species to the facilities. They all agree on it's superiority. Indeed, it is superior to yours. I could teach you the finer details but that would require monetary recompense on your part."
-The Milkshake Song: Vulcan Edition
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