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Ensign
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 5
Cryptic,

The turn rate for Federation cruisers like the Galaxy Class are just awful. The turn rate is a discouraging and cumbersome 6 for the Galaxy. It's counterpart, the Vor'cha is slightly better at 7, but the Negh'var gets a whopping turn rate of 9. This is hardly an accurate reflection of starship maneuverability from the TV shows.

The Galaxy was known for being quite maneuverable for a ship of its size. The Negh'Var was slightly larger, and built for sheer strength and force over speed. I know the Galaxy is a tier 4 ship, and the Negh'var a tier 5 ship in STO. However, it still doesn't make sense that a larger battleship should have a higher turn rate. Even the Excelsior has a lower turn rate of 8.

The Exploration Cruiser Retrofit helps somewhat because it can saucer separate, but w.o saucer separation it's still has a sluggish turn rate of 6. Besides, some people might prefer the extra survivability of being unseparated. Therefore, the turn rate should be adjusted for the Galaxy. I suggest making a new turn rate of 9 for the Galaxy so it doesn't handle like a train.

The Constitution has a turn rate of 9 and the K'T'inga has a turn rate of 11. This further unbalances gameplay as the Constitution has the same turn rate of the Negh'var, and the K'T'Inga has an even higher turn rate. I won't go into details on how the Constitution should be equal to the K'T'Inga, that is for a separate topic. But for the current topic, the turn rate of the Constitution should be 11.

The Excelsior should have a turn rate of 10 and the Nebula a turn rate of 9.

Thank you
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,269
# 2
09-19-2012, 09:27 PM
all federations cruisers should have +2 to their turn rate. and the vorcha has a turn rate of 10, not 7.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,839
# 3
09-19-2012, 09:44 PM
Yes, Cruisers should get a similar turnrate as Science ships.
I am not starting to list some canon sources that say federation cruisers should be more maneuverable (which is true), they are just boring to fly, thats all.
I have never seen a StarTrek game treating Cruiser so bad as STO.
Here, Cruisers are just big cumbersome flying bricks that cannot turn and only a few have enough firepower to seriously strike back. (Just being able to take Damage is NOT fun! IMHO)


Live long and prosper.

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Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 267
# 4
09-20-2012, 09:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yreodred View Post
Yes, Cruisers should get a similar turnrate as Science ships.
I am not starting to list some canon sources that say federation cruisers should be more maneuverable (which is true), they are just boring to fly, thats all.
I have never seen a StarTrek game treating Cruiser so bad as STO.
Here, Cruisers are just big cumbersome flying bricks that cannot turn and only a few have enough firepower to seriously strike back. (Just being able to take Damage is NOT fun! IMHO)


Live long and prosper.
You can't really go into Kerr'at with a bulky Cruiser. You'll get crushed quickly regardless of build. You must have an Escort or an Intrepid. Otherwise its no fun and a waste of your time going into places like that.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 5
09-20-2012, 09:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paragon92518 View Post
You can't really go into Kerr'at with a bulky Cruiser. You'll get crushed quickly regardless of build. You must have an Escort or an Intrepid. Otherwise its no fun and a waste of your time going into places like that.
This is not true. I've seen plenty of cruisers tank well AND dish out some DPS (not as much as an escort or maybe a KDF battlecruiser, but still). You just have to get creative with your build and know when to activate skills, and you can't be afraid of speccing into your 1-2 offensive sci skills. Skill timing is an incredibly important feature that some players lack. Even I don't have it down all the time (especially when a nice overpowered fleet defiant is bearing down on me).
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 6
09-20-2012, 12:28 AM
No. Fed cruisers are just fine, assuming you know how to use the darn things. They aren't supposed to be nimble.

If you really want a nimble cruiser, just get some evasive maneuver Conn doffs, stock up with Aux2Dampeners and other mobility-boosters (including engine batteries), and get Pattern Omega if your cruiser of choice has a LTC tac slot.

You want an innately nimble cruiser, join KDF and fly a Vor'cha (or the fleet Tor'kaht).
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,269
# 7
09-20-2012, 01:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelingmaster View Post
No. Fed cruisers are just fine, assuming you know how to use the darn things. They aren't supposed to be nimble.

If you really want a nimble cruiser, just get some evasive maneuver Conn doffs, stock up with Aux2Dampeners and other mobility-boosters (including engine batteries), and get Pattern Omega if your cruiser of choice has a LTC tac slot.

You want an innately nimble cruiser, join KDF and fly a Vor'cha (or the fleet Tor'kaht).
turning your build completely upside down so its terrble at doing cruisers things just so you can have turn rate bursts is not a solution, the kdf cruiser doesn't have to do any of that. fed cruisers are an anomaly within the game, everything but enormous carriers turns better, MUCH better. buffing their turn rate by 2 would put them back in the same ball park as everything else, and still be at the very low end. theres no reason for the average fed cruiser to have a turn rate between 3 and 5 worse then a kdf cruiser.

a kdf cruiser can do the same amount of support and healing as a fed cruiser, AND turn better. if it feels like it, it can crank up its turning with 2 or 3 consoles, equip DHCs, and be a dps monster, and a decent support ship. the federation ship simply cant, and it gets no other advantage for its disadvantage. there is a huge imbalance between fed and kdf cruisers because of this, imbalances should be fixed. giving them all+2 to turn would at least allow ships like the regent the ability to effectively use single cannons.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,060
# 8
09-20-2012, 01:15 AM
Agree, it's not decently balanced in the cruiser world ATM.
However I have to throw in that Fed cruisers should be less maneuverable than the Klingon counterparts (sans the Negh'var) simply because they are usually twice their mass.
What I think should be done is improve their other stats.
Shields, particularly the hull and also their power systems to reflect their larger size.
In other words: Large Fed cruisers like the Galaxy should be able to tank a lot more than they can now while the Klingon counterparts should be somewhere in the middle between their "escort-type" ships and the Fed cruisers.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,627
# 9
09-20-2012, 01:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterde3 View Post
Agree, it's not decently balanced in the cruiser world ATM.
However I have to throw in that Fed cruisers should be less maneuverable than the Klingon counterparts (sans the Negh'var) simply because they are usually twice their mass.
What I think should be done is improve their other stats.
Shields, particularly the hull and also their power systems to reflect their larger size.
In other words: Large Fed cruisers like the Galaxy should be able to tank a lot more than they can now while the Klingon counterparts should be somewhere in the middle between their "escort-type" ships and the Fed cruisers.
You've both got a point. But take this into account. If you increase the turn rate on cruisers, KDF players will cry foul because they will lose their advantage in both PvP and PvE. If you derp KDF cruisers to match their actual mass and have them sacrifice hull strength, armor, and innate damage resistance as they should have per your argument, then KDF players will cry foul because they lose their advantage in both PvP and PvE. HOWEVER if you leave things as is, Federation players will cry bull crap because their cruisers blow at doing anything but taking damage.

It's a Q.Q fest out there regardless of what happens. And before you start defending yourselves and saying "no we won't", think carefully, and tell me if that really will be the case for ALL players on ALL sides.

It's a lose lose situation, there is no way for both sides to be happy.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder. <--- DR proved me wrong!
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 10
09-20-2012, 03:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
turning your build completely upside down so its terrble at doing cruisers things just so you can have turn rate bursts is not a solution, the kdf cruiser doesn't have to do any of that. fed cruisers are an anomaly within the game, everything but enormous carriers turns better, MUCH better. buffing their turn rate by 2 would put them back in the same ball park as everything else, and still be at the very low end. theres no reason for the average fed cruiser to have a turn rate between 3 and 5 worse then a kdf cruiser.

a kdf cruiser can do the same amount of support and healing as a fed cruiser, AND turn better. if it feels like it, it can crank up its turning with 2 or 3 consoles, equip DHCs, and be a dps monster, and a decent support ship. the federation ship simply cant, and it gets no other advantage for its disadvantage. there is a huge imbalance between fed and kdf cruisers because of this, imbalances should be fixed. giving them all+2 to turn would at least allow ships like the regent the ability to effectively use single cannons.
There's an imbalance? Good. 'Cause Fed escorts beat the cr@p out of KDF escorts for the most part, especially the fleet ones. The feddies also have a selection of dedicated dilithium-bought science ships, which are quite effective in the right hands. So, we get the better cruisers as a tradeoff. Or, the Feddies could get used to not being able to turn on a dime in their space whales. I've seen Fed cruisers do fine on tanking and DPS in PvP. . .you just have to know what to do.
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