Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,890
Ok, I know that there have been a lot of "Cruisers need a damage buff" threads recently and by now most of us are bored of them, I myself am but I felt this was worth saying.

I run the T3 Excelsior and the T5 Excelsior and decided, for %$^%s and giggles, I'd take my T3 one out for a while. I did a couple of STFs in it KASN and CSE, I can already hear people thinking "Get to the point already!" so here is said point:

My T3 Excelsior managed to pull a gates agro off an Oddy and a T5 Escort, hold it and survive at the same time. All the while putting out the same damage figures of my T5 version using the same build (As shown below).

My T3 Excelsior

My T5 Excelsior

T3 weapons, consoles and equipment

Wepons
2 Polarised Tetryon Beam arrays Mk XI
2 Phased Tetryon Beam arrays Mk XI [Acc] [Dmg]
2 Adv Fleet Tetryon Beam arrays Mk XII [Dmg]x3 [Acc]

Equipment
Full Mk XI MACO

Consoles
Eng: 2 Neutronium Mk XI (Blue), Borg
Sci: Field gen Mk XI (Blue)
Tac: 2 Tetryon pulse gen Mk XI (Blue)

T5 weapons, consoles and equipment

Weapons
as T3 with 2 Quantum Torp launchers Mk XII [Borg]

Equipment
Full Mk XII MACO

Consoles
Eng: 2 Neutronium Mk XI (Blue), 1 Monotanuim Mk XI (Blue), Borg
Sci: 2 Field gen Mk XI (Blue)
Tac: 3 Tetryon pulse gen Mk XI (Blue)

DOFFs (Same on both)
2x Conn officer - tac team cd reduction (Blue)
Matter-anti matter spec (Blue)
Damage control (Blue)
Tech (Blue)

The T3 ship was doing 500-800 damage per hit critting at about 1000-1050 per hit, the reason for this thread is that despite the extra tac console the T5 does EXACTLY the same.

I do cycle EPtW and EPtS on both ships and I do make use of AP:B whenever possible, so, any ideas?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 232
# 2
10-12-2012, 03:02 PM
If not for the extra console, I could explain a 10% difference: You're running EPtS2+EPtS1 on your T3, while only dual EPtS1 on your T5. That's 5 points of weapon power, 7 after EPS skill. Also, you get another +2.5% all energy for 5 seconds.
The added console SHOULD really make up for that though, and a bit more.

Can you repeat the last test again without tac consoles?

From the values you crossposted over three threads now () I'd say that one of your Tetryon consoles on the T5 is malfunctioning, but ... no clue how or why something like that could happen. The values for the T3 look fine.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,890
# 3
10-12-2012, 03:32 PM
Well I can't repeat the test now because of the real life time however I will repeat it tomorrow and run both tests as it may end up being a different ship as the target
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,738
# 4
10-12-2012, 08:31 PM
Easy fix

Determine how much damage a cruiser should
Do compared to avg escort

Eng/Cruiser.....add buffs
Tac/Escort.......add buffs

Bring up the % of damage the Eng needs
Tied to his slated ships to desired goal

Problem solved
Easily adjusted if need be

Personally I think torpedo damage against shields
Should be raised for engineer to give him a boost

It would fit into his description and skill set as well
This would have to be linked to his ships of
Course
Jellico....Engineer.....Stargazer KDF Tac
Saphire.. Science.....Ko'el Rom Kdf Tac
Leva........Tactical.....Mailu KDF Sci

JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 273
# 5
10-12-2012, 08:44 PM
Engi's are supposed to control the battlefield with bullwarks and mines, right? Why not give them some mine related powers? Maybe an Engineer-unique Mine pattern, or something of the like.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,890
# 6
10-13-2012, 01:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jellico1 View Post
Determine how much damage a cruiser should
Do compared to avg escort

Eng/Cruiser.....add buffs
Tac/Escort.......add buffs

Bring up the % of damage the Eng needs
Tied to his slated ships to desired goal
How does this fix this issue? We're talking about The CMDR Excelsior performing just as well for damage output as it's RA counterpart and (minus a little cap) shield tanking just as well also... This has nothing to do with cruisers in general, well it does if this is not a malfunction of some kind then it says that Cryptic/PWE/People of authority really doesn't care for cruisers and (minus a few exceptions) haven't given them any real upgrades since CMDR rank... which I actually find hard to believe.

I have already suggested better ways to reduce the damage gulf between the average cruiser and the average escort but everyone (Except Biteme. though even he didn't say anything about it) ignored it. See the PvP forums if you're interested
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,738
# 7
10-13-2012, 02:09 AM
Your idea is a good one so are many others

I offered this as a simple way to adjust damage over a entire
Class that would work as good with less
Work on a Devs part

It would also be easier to tweak , amd less
Likely to unbalance another part of the game

Just like the extend shields shared cool down mess that just
Occurred and still isn't over or fully tested yet
Jellico....Engineer.....Stargazer KDF Tac
Saphire.. Science.....Ko'el Rom Kdf Tac
Leva........Tactical.....Mailu KDF Sci

JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,892
# 8
10-13-2012, 02:32 AM
new week, new "buff cruisers" thread. This time with a slight deveation in the topic, but the usual suspects comment in the thread.

why would a t5 need a buff based on the assumption that a t3 does the same dmg?
that t5 has 2 additional weapon slots and BOFF slots.

i'm not even entirely sure about those numbers...as i said before, and i say it again. plz use the numbers that are presented in the weapon tray...not "on-hit" numbers, since on hit numbers can be blured due to resistance etc.

pretty sure the weapon tray numbers will be higher on the t5 than on the t3, due to the 3rd tac console. "on-hit" numbers are subject to many other diminishing factors, range being only one.
Go pro or go home
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,890
# 9
10-13-2012, 02:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baudl View Post
new week, new "buff cruisers" thread. This time with a slight deveation in the topic, but the usual suspects comment in the thread.

why would a t5 need a buff based on the assumption that a t3 does the same dmg?
that t5 has 2 additional weapon slots and BOFF slots.

i'm not even entirely sure about those numbers...as i said before, and i say it again. plz use the numbers that are presented in the weapon tray...not "on-hit" numbers, since on hit numbers can be blured due to resistance etc.

pretty sure the weapon tray numbers will be higher on the t5 than on the t3, due to the 3rd tac console. "on-hit" numbers are subject to many other diminishing factors, range being only one.
But at the same time the "on-hit" numbers are more realistic because they take that into account but at the same time how do you account for both ships as configured above producing the same figures?

Also with regard to your "new "buff cruisers" thread" complaint, this was an experiment, I documented my findings thought to myself "This can't be right", tested again on a player ship's bare hull at the same distance (give or take 0.05km) and came up with the same results. so here I am asking for peoples ideas of how this could have come about, chances are like flekh said, it's probably just a console malfunction but if it's all working properly then there IS something wrong with the ship... the can be NO other explanation under the test circumstances

Last edited by adamkafei; 10-13-2012 at 02:41 AM.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,805
# 10
10-13-2012, 12:38 AM
Lets face it, Cruisers and Science could use a little umph...not saying they should be equal ground as Escorts on damage but it would be nice to see them get a little nudge damage wise.
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