Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,497
# 1 Fleet BOP suggestions
10-14-2012, 08:01 PM
I noticed that the Fleet Hos'is BOP is suppose to be the ship that comes with the Bortas'q. I would like to see a modification of the ship and have either the Qul'Dun or the Ki'tang/Ch'tang(I would prefer these) skins interchangeable with it.

Also, I would like to see a Fleet Ning'tao/Norgh refit with 4 Tac 3 Eng and 3 Sci console slots.

Further, I would like to see a sci varient BOP at Fleet Base lvl cap. This one would have the increased hull and shields with 4 Sci, 3 Eng, and 3 Tac console slots, and the built in Sesnor Analyisis much like how the Sci varient of the Bortas'q has that ability. As for the skin, I would suggest the Qul'Dun.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,769
# 2
10-14-2012, 08:07 PM
I wish the fleet Ning'Tao had the advanced battle cloak. Then it super low hull and low shields would make more sense to me.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,052
# 3
10-15-2012, 03:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
I wish the fleet Ning'Tao had the advanced battle cloak. Then it super low hull and low shields would make more sense to me.
That's the thing I don't get:

I read basically two different standpoints on the forums...okay three actually.

-The ship is squishy

-The ship is thougher than its stats make it out to be

-I'm too dumb to understand the ship

Which is it?

Because I'm very interested in getting this ship for either one of my Tacs or one of my Scis. But I refuse to get fleet modules for it when it falls apart from visual contact with the enemy.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,283
# 4
10-15-2012, 05:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterde3 View Post
That's the thing I don't get:

I read basically two different standpoints on the forums...okay three actually.

-The ship is squishy

-The ship is thougher than its stats make it out to be

-I'm too dumb to understand the ship

Which is it?

Because I'm very interested in getting this ship for either one of my Tacs or one of my Scis. But I refuse to get fleet modules for it when it falls apart from visual contact with the enemy.

Option 3 is probably a non-starter, you're likely NOT too dumb to understand the ship, given that you're able to handle spelling and grammar.

Mostly. at least your typos aren't so bad as to eliminate inspection-through context.

1. Yes, the ship IS kinda squishy.

2. Yes, it IS tougher than it looks.

The way to look at driving a Bird of Prey, is that it's not a track, it's a sports-car. everything not needed is stripped off, leaving a pure "Pilot's Airplane" style-at the expense of being unable to just stand-in-one-spot-and-slug-it-out. To fly ANY BoP when you have other options, you MUST LOVE TO MANEUVER. The Fleet Norgh kind of takes this to the end result-it's ALL for speed and manueverability, with very little left for anything else.

BUT, fear not, for you can still make it do really cool things (Like survive long enough to evase into cloak)

Your most important 1st step, is to understand that, really, all those Uni slots break down into "This will either help me kill ****, or help me survive being shot at." Nothing else applies with a Bird of Prey.

so if your sci slots aren't FILLED with goodies to either increase your shield capacity, or increase shield levels, you need to buy different consoles.

If your eng. slots aren't full of Neutronium and other tanking consoles, you need to reconsider your Console of Choice.

For Bridge officer slots?

Stack as you see fit-but you should always keep in mind a few things:

EPTS is Yor Freeend..
So is Tac Team, and Science Team. (tac team shifts shields around to the facing taking the most damage and eliminates boarding parties, Sci team helps speed up regen on your shields.)

Very few SUCCESSFUL BoP builds employ beams to any degree, most use two turrets rear and all cannons (or mostly cannons with one torp) up front, with emphasis on CRF and CSV.

For Tac Consoles, think "my weapon of CHOICE is..." and make sure the consoles fit that energy type-completely.

ie if you're running Disruptor cannons, you want to stack Disruptor consoles-not Cannon consoles, as the boost there is too small, see?
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 5
10-15-2012, 12:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
Option 3 is probably a non-starter, you're likely NOT too dumb to understand the ship, given that you're able to handle spelling and grammar.

Mostly. at least your typos aren't so bad as to eliminate inspection-through context.

1. Yes, the ship IS kinda squishy.

2. Yes, it IS tougher than it looks.

The way to look at driving a Bird of Prey, is that it's not a track, it's a sports-car. everything not needed is stripped off, leaving a pure "Pilot's Airplane" style-at the expense of being unable to just stand-in-one-spot-and-slug-it-out. To fly ANY BoP when you have other options, you MUST LOVE TO MANEUVER. The Fleet Norgh kind of takes this to the end result-it's ALL for speed and manueverability, with very little left for anything else.

BUT, fear not, for you can still make it do really cool things (Like survive long enough to evase into cloak)

Your most important 1st step, is to understand that, really, all those Uni slots break down into "This will either help me kill ****, or help me survive being shot at." Nothing else applies with a Bird of Prey.

so if your sci slots aren't FILLED with goodies to either increase your shield capacity, or increase shield levels, you need to buy different consoles.

If your eng. slots aren't full of Neutronium and other tanking consoles, you need to reconsider your Console of Choice.

For Bridge officer slots?

Stack as you see fit-but you should always keep in mind a few things:

EPTS is Yor Freeend..
So is Tac Team, and Science Team. (tac team shifts shields around to the facing taking the most damage and eliminates boarding parties, Sci team helps speed up regen on your shields.)

Very few SUCCESSFUL BoP builds employ beams to any degree, most use two turrets rear and all cannons (or mostly cannons with one torp) up front, with emphasis on CRF and CSV.

For Tac Consoles, think "my weapon of CHOICE is..." and make sure the consoles fit that energy type-completely.

ie if you're running Disruptor cannons, you want to stack Disruptor consoles-not Cannon consoles, as the boost there is too small, see?
This. This is a good post.

I would like to point out that it is useful to have a Dual Beam Bank combined with a Beam Overload 2 attack, along with quantum torpedoes and either High Yield 2 or 3 (basically, Thissler's build). If you approach the target right and give your weapons time to fire, this can lead to devastating de-cloak alphastrikes. It tends to not work as well on veteran players, because they both react faster and are used to BoPs ambushing them . . .but I still weigh in nicely on fights. The hard part is when they start paying attention to you and firing everything they've got at you when you decloak.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,497
# 6
10-15-2012, 06:31 PM
The whole point I was trying to make with this post is that I want to see three Fleet BOP console layouts. One with +1 Engineer(Hos'us), one with +1 Tac (the Ning'tao because of the psudo X-wing configuration), and one with a +1 Sci console and the Sensor analysis ability. This would give the KDF two ships with varient layouts (BOP and Bortas'q) compaired to the Federation.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,052
# 7
10-21-2012, 12:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
Option 3 is probably a non-starter, you're likely NOT too dumb to understand the ship, given that you're able to handle spelling and grammar.

Mostly. at least your typos aren't so bad as to eliminate inspection-through context.
Thank you.
Well, there is a combination of reasons for the somewhat strange way I sometimes write.
First of all English is not my native language and while I usually write stuff like my seminar works in English, I tend to be somewhat more "free-style" on the forums.
Since my experience is not as well as it probably should be for this, the result is not always as well as it probably should be.
Well at least what I write is intelligible most of the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
1. Yes, the ship IS kinda squishy.

2. Yes, it IS tougher than it looks.

The way to look at driving a Bird of Prey, is that it's not a track, it's a sports-car. everything not needed is stripped off, leaving a pure "Pilot's Airplane" style-at the expense of being unable to just stand-in-one-spot-and-slug-it-out. To fly ANY BoP when you have other options, you MUST LOVE TO MANEUVER. The Fleet Norgh kind of takes this to the end result-it's ALL for speed and manueverability, with very little left for anything else.
I grew up with Tie Fighter so maneuvering is not exactly a problem, even though I've got to admit the BoP is the only ship type in this game where I wish I could use a joystick to steer it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
BUT, fear not, for you can still make it do really cool things (Like survive long enough to evase into cloak)

Your most important 1st step, is to understand that, really, all those Uni slots break down into "This will either help me kill ****, or help me survive being shot at." Nothing else applies with a Bird of Prey.

so if your sci slots aren't FILLED with goodies to either increase your shield capacity, or increase shield levels, you need to buy different consoles.

If your eng. slots aren't full of Neutronium and other tanking consoles, you need to reconsider your Console of Choice.
This is basically the way I fly mine anyway.
The BoP is a "no frills" ship.

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
For Bridge officer slots?

Stack as you see fit-but you should always keep in mind a few things:

EPTS is Yor Freeend..
So is Tac Team, and Science Team. (tac team shifts shields around to the facing taking the most damage and eliminates boarding parties, Sci team helps speed up regen on your shields.)

Very few SUCCESSFUL BoP builds employ beams to any degree, most use two turrets rear and all cannons (or mostly cannons with one torp) up front, with emphasis on CRF and CSV.

For Tac Consoles, think "my weapon of CHOICE is..." and make sure the consoles fit that energy type-completely.

ie if you're running Disruptor cannons, you want to stack Disruptor consoles-not Cannon consoles, as the boost there is too small, see?
I was very annoyed when, during their great skill-tree revamp, they made my nice MkXII torpedo and cannon consoles obsolete, but I already adapted back then.

When I pondered my choices regardig the BO layout I realized no matter whether I were to decide on the Norgh's use on a Sci or a Tac the layout would only change on one point: which BO goes into the Commander slot.
In case of a Tac Captain the Tac BO would go into the Commander slot, in case of the Sci Captain the Sci Bo would go into the Commander slot.

So my build would be this for (Sci and Tac basically alike):

Science:
Gravity Well 3
Science Team 3
Hazard Emitters 2
Polarize Hull 1

Tactical:
Attack Pattern Omega 3
High Yield 3
Rapid Fire 1
Tac Team 1

Tactical (Lt Slot)
Scatter Volley 1
Tac Team 1

Engineering:

Emergency Power to Shields 3
Engineering Team 2
Emergency Power to Weapons 1

Probably not an ideal build, but then I usually don't PvP, it's just an STF build.
---------------------------------------
My gripe with this ship is this:
I do not gain a console slot, so in that department the Fleet Norgh offers nothing new compared to the regular BoPs.
There is no bonus to firepower or defense to be gained here.

It does have an increased healing/damage potential thanks to the BO layout but:
Does the increased ABILITY to heal itself outweigh the increased NEED to heal itself due to the low hull?
If this is not the case, I fear there is no advantage to be found with this ship.

Again, thank you very much for your kind and highly informative post.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,283
# 8
10-21-2012, 02:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterde3 View Post
Thank you.
Well, there is a combination of reasons for the somewhat strange way I sometimes write.
First of all English is not my native language and while I usually write stuff like my seminar works in English, I tend to be somewhat more "free-style" on the forums.
Since my experience is not as well as it probably should be for this, the result is not always as well as it probably should be.
Well at least what I write is intelligible most of the time.



I grew up with Tie Fighter so maneuvering is not exactly a problem, even though I've got to admit the BoP is the only ship type in this game where I wish I could use a joystick to steer it.



This is basically the way I fly mine anyway.
The BoP is a "no frills" ship.



I was very annoyed when, during their great skill-tree revamp, they made my nice MkXII torpedo and cannon consoles obsolete, but I already adapted back then.

When I pondered my choices regardig the BO layout I realized no matter whether I were to decide on the Norgh's use on a Sci or a Tac the layout would only change on one point: which BO goes into the Commander slot.
In case of a Tac Captain the Tac BO would go into the Commander slot, in case of the Sci Captain the Sci Bo would go into the Commander slot.

So my build would be this for (Sci and Tac basically alike):

Science:
Gravity Well 3
Science Team 3
Hazard Emitters 2
Polarize Hull 1

Tactical:
Attack Pattern Omega 3
High Yield 3
Rapid Fire 1
Tac Team 1

Tactical (Lt Slot)
Scatter Volley 1
Tac Team 1

Engineering:

Emergency Power to Shields 3
Engineering Team 2
Emergency Power to Weapons 1

Probably not an ideal build, but then I usually don't PvP, it's just an STF build.
---------------------------------------
My gripe with this ship is this:
I do not gain a console slot, so in that department the Fleet Norgh offers nothing new compared to the regular BoPs.
There is no bonus to firepower or defense to be gained here.

It does have an increased healing/damage potential thanks to the BO layout but:
Does the increased ABILITY to heal itself outweigh the increased NEED to heal itself due to the low hull?
If this is not the case, I fear there is no advantage to be found with this ship.

Again, thank you very much for your kind and highly informative post.
a HUGE component of your defense with the Fleet Norgh comes from your manueverability-a fleetie put the Omega shield (+30% turn) on hers with an Omega engine, assimilated deflector and the console, we ran testing on it, even another fleetie with a bugship had a hell of a time keeping her in the front arc-which made up a LOT for the lower-than-a-Hegh'ta hull and shield multiplier.

But if you wanted a bit thicker skin, with four tac consoles (instead of balanced out, iirc the Hose-us shifts one from eng or sci), you should wait until your fleet's got a Tier IV yard and buy the Hoser, atrocious art, afterthought origin and all-it's got more hull than a Heggie, four tac consoles, and similar performance.


Personally, I LOVE my Norgh, I've got the 1000 day reward ship (the Destroyer) but it sits in the yard because it just isn't as much fun to fly, instead my Norgh gets all the lovin', except where said lovin' is incompatible with Polaron cannons-then my Heggie gets the goodies, and actually gets to come out and play occasionally...and I am very unlikely to spend on the Hoh'sus, statwise superiority or no-because I despise the way it looks, and can't find a client-side mod to change the skin to look more like a REAL BoP instead of the bastardized child of a lego set and a 1980's era Zoids toy modeling the Imperial Shuttle Tyderium (c. Lucasarts/ILM).


Otherwise, another "GOOD" option if you're going to spend the Zen, instead of a Fleet ship, is the upgraded b'rel-more hull, even better turn, improved cloak, same weps and similar consoles, the only downside of the little bastard is that when torps hit and damage crew, it REALLY hurts. (you only have 30 guys, your repair rate is determined by alive crew size...yah, getting hit is bad.) You can do MOST of hte same things on a B'rel you can do on your present Hegh'ta, but you can do a couple tricks NONE of hte other BoPs can do-fire torpedoes from cloak, for example, or drop mines while cloaked, come around, decloak-alpha-run, he chases you right into your minefield...fun stuff.

But, as I said, personally I very much love my Norgh. with the consoles I have, plus KHG shields, I'm running just over 10K shields when they're up (taken from the stat display while orbiting DS9), using my setup (4x Polaron DHC front, 2x Polaron Turrets rear, CRF1,2,and3, APA1,APOIII and APB1, TSS 1 and 2, EPS 1 and 2, Tac team1 twice...) I have no difficulty clearing Nannie probes on CSE, killing assimilated BoPs there, assimilated Raptors there, or damaging the assimilated Negh'vars for my teammates to finish off, and the other night a difficulty with my keyboard forced me into facing the tac-cube on ISE solo while my teammates broke the gate. I got it down to around 20% before it got me-more importantly, I kept it busy enough nobody else died out before I did.

(the difficulty was: I forgot to switch over from chat to controls for almost a minute. WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADDDDDDDDDDDDDD DD yah...stupid mistake, I know...)

we BoP drivers are, I feel, a somewhat neglected breed compared to the Raptor and Cruiser fans, probably because we have the taste of something no other ship in the game has, and a taste FOR something different from what is popular with the development staff.

Whatever Bird of Prey you eventually go with (including the SUPERB Hegh'ta), know this:

"When the KDF runs out of Birds of Prey, they have, in truth, run out of ships."
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,769
# 9
10-15-2012, 08:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterde3 View Post
That's the thing I don't get:

I read basically two different standpoints on the forums...okay three actually.

-The ship is squishy

-The ship is thougher than its stats make it out to be

-I'm too dumb to understand the ship

Which is it?

Because I'm very interested in getting this ship for either one of my Tacs or one of my Scis. But I refuse to get fleet modules for it when it falls apart from visual contact with the enemy.
I feel number 1 is the answer but until I purchase it a try, I can not say for sure.

Number 2 may be true as its shield modifier may be different from what is displayed but that low hull is a liability regardless.

I doubt number 3 is relevant or even true.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,289
# 10
10-15-2012, 07:26 PM
I agree the Fleet Hoh'sus needs an alternative skin, I hate the bent wings on it and itss insect like look.

Since that is our 4 tac console BOP other ideas I have for fleet BOP would be:

Fleet Hegh'ta- increased hull and shields over regular Hegh'ta, and 4 eng consoles, fitting for a "heavy" BOP

Fleet Ki'tang- increased hull/shields, 4 sci consoles, a true sci bop


I know PWE/Cryptic wouldn't consider this one due to the enhanced battle cloak being an innate ability but I would also like to see a Fleet B'rel with increased hull/shields and 4th tac consoles. Maybe they could add a Fleet version of this if they would only make it available to owners of the z-store B'rel who have paid for the enhance battle cloak already.
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