Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 64
Okay, so I've been level 50 for a while and not too long ago I saved up and bought the Sao Paulo class for the Quad Phaser Cannons [Dmgx4]; and now I recently got the Advanced Fleet Dual Heavy Cannons [Acc, Dmgx3] and I'm looking at the DPS and there is only a 1.9 difference?!?

The whole endeavor seems like a rip off now. Why would anyone bother to buy an entire ship for 1500 ZEN when 10000 Dilithium (roughly 63 Zen at 160 per) will get you a weapon with just 1.9 Damage Per Second less (out of hundreds or .3% less) with higher accuracy and a higher critical damage bonus that doesn't drain your engine power?

Quad Cannons need a major DPS increase (or SOMETHING) to be worth the expense. Am I wrong?
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STO Forum member since 2008, player since 2012 - funny story that
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 750
# 2
10-16-2012, 08:58 PM
You are wrong. They are a vanity item at best, so that escort captains can feel like Ben Sisko, blowing those Dominion bastards straight to hell.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,231
# 3
10-16-2012, 09:03 PM
Because the Sao Paulo looks awesome compared to the Defiant skin. I ran the quads for a while before I got my fleet DHC. The quads also look and sounds amazing. That is all.
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Community Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 862
# 4
10-18-2012, 04:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fulleatherjacket View Post
You are wrong. They are a vanity item at best, so that escort captains can feel like Ben Sisko, blowing those Dominion bastards straight to hell.
Agreed, and to me that makes them worth the cost in itself

I saw the Sao Paulo as a costume pack
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Rihannsu
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 248
# 5
10-16-2012, 09:16 PM
Adjournon, I understand what you are saying but I think you are overlooking a few important points.

First, as you noted you are comparing an entire ship with an individual piece of equipment. When you pay Z1500 for the Sao Paolo you are buying...

-A ship with premium performance for your Tactical captain and presumedly any future tactical captains you roll
-Additional costume parts for the Tactical Escort, the Tactical Escort Retrofit, and the Fleet TER
-Quad phaser cannons for any of your captains who want them (with a unique shooting animation)

By contrast, the 10,000 dilithium and fleet equipment provision you are spending for the AFDHC are being spent for a single weapons module.

If you don't want the costume parts, don't want the performance boost for your 30-40 level tactical toons, and don't want the account-wide access for the weapon, then the AFDHC is definitely the better choice.

There's another important point: by paying a premium, anyone can have the QPC immediately for any character that is high enough level to spawn the Sao Paolo (i.e. over 30th level and on the Fed faction). The AFDHC, by contrast, is limited to Vice Admirals and critically requires you to be:

A) a member of a fleet, and
B) have access to gear provisions and a tier 2 fabber that you presumably participated in earning.

In other words, the discounted cost of the AFDHC is also related to the fact that the devs are incentivizing certain behaviors (fleet membership).

Finally, there's the matter of infinity gear. The AFDHC is Mk XII gear and there is not reasonable expectation that it will ever improve in stats unless there is a radical change in the way the weapons are balanced across the board. By contrast, the QPC is infinity gear, which means that if/when (probably when based on dev comments) Admiral rank and Tier 6 comes out, the QPC is likely to advance to Mk XIV just as it (belatedly) advanced to Mk XII in Season 6.

Summary

You are correct that, compared side-to-side with the QPC and assuming the QPC is the sole purpose of buying the Sao Paolo, the AFDHC is a better value.

However, the Z1500 price of the QPC includes a number of other items. Some players will want these things and this will change their value judgment about the QPC; in fact, market research related to FTP in Korea revealed that cosmetic items were the main driver of FTP microtransactions.

TL;DR

You're comparing apples and oranges

Last edited by ashtaku; 10-16-2012 at 09:18 PM. Reason: grammar
Survivor of Remus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 242
# 6
10-16-2012, 09:54 PM
1 more big up for the QC is that is proc rate is the Hughes in the game which most people overlook
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,978
# 7
10-17-2012, 02:11 AM
I don't believe they do need a boost, they scale as you level and I believe as they drain engine power they therefore get a power based damage boost for higher engine power, that and th extra 2 hits per volley gives any tac buffs even more power
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 184
# 8
10-17-2012, 02:38 AM
ok here is where im going to disagree with most of you, the QC are awsome but NOT for pvp, i use 1 QC, 2 DHC and 1 torp fore, and my DPS rocks especially if you are using cannon rapid fire, but i would deffo NOT use them for pvp
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 200
# 9
10-17-2012, 01:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adjournon View Post
Quad Cannons need a major DPS increase (or SOMETHING) to be worth the expense. Am I wrong?
Imho, no. The increase in damage is laughable. A bit more would be welcome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashtaku View Post
There's another important point: by paying a premium, anyone can have the QPC immediately for any character that is high enough level to spawn the Sao Paolo (i.e. over 30th level and on the Fed faction). The AFDHC, by contrast, is limited to Vice Admirals and critically requires you to be:

A) a member of a fleet, and
B) have access to gear provisions and a tier 2 fabber that you presumably participated in earning.

In other words, the discounted cost of the AFDHC is also related to the fact that the devs are incentivizing certain behaviors (fleet membership).
A) Not that hard
B) Again, not that hard

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashtaku View Post
Finally, there's the matter of infinity gear. The AFDHC is Mk XII gear and there is not reasonable expectation that it will ever improve in stats unless there is a radical change in the way the weapons are balanced across the board. By contrast, the QPC is infinity gear, which means that if/when (probably when based on dev comments) Admiral rank and Tier 6 comes out, the QPC is likely to advance to Mk XIV just as it (belatedly) advanced to Mk XII in Season 6.
I certainly hope so!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashtaku View Post
Summary

You are correct that, compared side-to-side with the QPC and assuming the QPC is the sole purpose of buying the Sao Paolo, the AFDHC is a better value.

However, the Z1500 price of the QPC includes a number of other items. Some players will want these things and this will change their value judgment about the QPC; in fact, market research related to FTP in Korea revealed that cosmetic items were the main driver of FTP microtransactions.

TL;DR

You're comparing apples and oranges
I think you are wrong here. They are both cannons and the AFDHC is fairly easy to get compared with the grinding you need to do to get Z1500 for the PQC. I assume grinding and not buying z-points because you also grind for the AFDHC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adamkafei View Post
I don't believe they do need a boost, they scale as you level and I believe as they drain engine power they therefore get a power based damage boost for higher engine power, that and th extra 2 hits per volley gives any tac buffs even more power
Not according to this: http://www.stowiki.org/Phaser_Quad_Cannons

Also it states (and I can't verify this) that the PQC is somewhat like a MK X weapon. Not a MK XI or even MK XII. So scaling is limited.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 248
# 10
10-17-2012, 04:21 PM
Quote:
Not according to this: http://www.stowiki.org/Phaser_Quad_Cannons

Also it states (and I can't verify this) that the PQC is somewhat like a MK X weapon. Not a MK XI or even MK XII. So scaling is limited.
The commentary on the website about the scalability of the Quad Cannon hasn't been updated since the Season 6 patch that brought the end-stage damage scale in line with other Vice Admiral level weapons.

Incidentally, I agree with you that the fleet-related entry barriers for the AFDHC are not all that difficult to overcome. My point wasn't that the devs thought it would be hard to get, but rather that they made it fairly easy and affordable to get, if you engage in the behavior they want you to (participating in fleet content).
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