Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 633
# 1 Rep System Gear Costs
10-28-2012, 05:48 AM
The dilithium costs of the new STF gear acquisition have been repeatedly raised as an issue. And I agree. For the romulan rep system and romulan gear I foresee few issues beyond the consumables, there?s only one set til cap and only 2 there.

The Omega system however is generating large amounts of concern for me, and for others. There's separate ground and space gear there, 3 sets of each, and obviously oodles of normal weapon choices.

People are almost certainly going to want at least 1 ground and 1 space set, plus weaponry. That?s a lot more dilithium than the reman set + weapons will ask for. And some people for obvious reasons will want more than one set, (the whole MACO vs OMEGA situation being an obvious example as one is tanky, the other is dps'y, but people changing ships over time is another). This could quickly see the Dil costs for gear spiraling out of control. And that?s before you get to boffs, or the proposed ability to call in our other ships when we get the new admiral rank.

Whilst others are going nuts about it i can live with the idea of paying dil for the gear, but I think with Omega at least your risking making them too steep. This goes double for the countless players, (myself included), who have a number of alts. They face an even more insane grind. With the current suggested set prices your looking at a 648K dil grind for all sets. Or just under 3 months at 8K a day. That?s on top of the rep costs and the costs on gear on the way up, and it's virtually impossible for you to cap every character out every day. Hell i have trouble capping one out. Starting even contemplating boff's and/or other ship gearing and it goes utterly stupid. With weapons added in the system could quickly spiral beyond the 2 million dil mark per character. Then there's the need for gear sets on the way up, eve at one set and cheaper costs it add's steeply to things.


So what?s the solution IMHO? Obviously you can't go and just cut prices. So here's my idea based on my current understanding of how the rep system works.

1. Do your projects, get to the relevant teir.

2. Now do a Store Access project, this is a high Dil cost, (and other costs), project that unlocks access to a particular requisition project.

3. Now you have access to fairly cheap requisition project for the actual gear.


That way you still get people laying down a big chunk of dilithium in stage 2, appropriate to what you want to ask of people, but you don't penalize people who want more than 1 set for the obvious reasons.

One other issue I see is weapons. If it's a 40Hr project per weapon it's going to be even less viable that the dil costs for a full set would already make it. Since even at 2 projects a time your talking over a week for a full set of space weapons. This would make the lower tiers fairly unattractive in reality.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,055
# 2
10-28-2012, 07:52 AM
I guess the counterpoint is that it *shouldn't* be easy or quick to get the very best gear the game has to offer.
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,101
# 3
10-28-2012, 09:01 AM
We're reviewing the Dilithium costs associated with gear - both direct-reward projects, and the store prices. It's likely they will fall some, though we're not entirely certain by how much, just yet.

I'd like to point out that Store Unlock projects have no Dilithium cost in the project itself. So, should you choose to unlock the store, and then end up deciding not to purchase any of the items you now have access to, these actions won't deplete your Dilithium reserves.

Thanks for the feedback!
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Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Systems Design
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Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 61
# 4
10-28-2012, 09:15 AM
the dilithium cost is running me off. stuff cost high. and i wont being putting no more than 20 a month in the game...i have spent alot over this year....1000... and i'm done with the high cost... so please lower it.. because your running off your player base.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,448
# 5
10-28-2012, 10:16 AM
I really have no problem with the dilithium costs. I think its perfectly reasonable for a person who plays the game a few hours a week, running the content they decide, to earn enough.

My only issue, but I haven't expressed it as a sticking point, is that no matter how much time you want to put IN, you still have to wait months to get to t5 etc. Surely, as a personal rep system, it should not be important to have such a time lock on progress - if that progress was earned through playing the game.

Thank you.
nynik | Join Date: Dec 2009
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 730
# 6
10-28-2012, 10:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
We're reviewing the Dilithium costs associated with gear - both direct-reward projects, and the store prices. It's likely they will fall some, though we're not entirely certain by how much, just yet.

I'd like to point out that Store Unlock projects have no Dilithium cost in the project itself. So, should you choose to unlock the store, and then end up deciding not to purchase any of the items you now have access to, these actions won't deplete your Dilithium reserves.

Thanks for the feedback!
On a related issue, are dilithium costs for the Personnel Officer doff pack and the 'grinder' (5 lower rank for 1 higher rank) being looked at? A 5000% increase in some of these costs seems far more than necessary -- there's nothing wrong with small adjustments and see what happens from there.
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Last edited by phyrexianhero; 10-28-2012 at 10:54 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,055
# 7
10-28-2012, 02:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by phyrexianhero View Post
On a related issue, are dilithium costs for the Personnel Officer doff pack and the 'grinder' (5 lower rank for 1 higher rank) being looked at? A 5000% increase in some of these costs seems far more than necessary -- there's nothing wrong with small adjustments and see what happens from there.
Yeah, it'd be nice if they tweaked the values instead of completely changing them. A 100% increase wouldn't have been that bad.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 86
# 8
10-28-2012, 02:42 PM
The Projects for Store unlock dont Cost Dilithium? so why did i need to put 10K into the Project to unlock the Scorpion Fighter?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 633
# 9
10-28-2012, 02:58 PM
Quote:
We're reviewing the Dilithium costs associated with gear - both direct-reward projects, and the store prices. It's likely they will fall some, though we're not entirely certain by how much, just yet.

I'd like to point out that Store Unlock projects have no Dilithium cost in the project itself. So, should you choose to unlock the store, and then end up deciding not to purchase any of the items you now have access to, these actions won't deplete your Dilithium reserves.

Thanks for the feedback!
This was my understanding of how the system works. I'm glad your looking at the costs. But the issue i see is that no mount of nerfing the base gear cost will be workable, especially once admiral rank hits and we've got several ships to equip, (my guess, limited to same number as ground boffs, so an extra 4). You'd have to get them down at a bare minimum to about 8K per piece tops, and that?s if you don't expect most people to acquire the weapons. If you adding weapons in 4K might be too much, (and that?s assuming a sub 1K cost for weapons).

Even 8K per piece is obviously far too cheap a surcharge IMHO. This is why i suggested moving much of the cost to a "pre-project" that you get after gaining access to the store but before being able to do the gear requisition project. It puts the majority of your gear costs in the pre-project, so that people are still paying a suitable cost, but not so expensive for the actual gear the extra sets and weapons, (for all he mydrid reasons i outlined), will be super expensive.

TBH none of m,y characters have even got to T1 yet, so I haven?t seen the details of the store, just working off reports and the math on your given dil cost numbrs.

Quote:
I guess the counterpoint is that it *shouldn't* be easy or quick to get the very best gear the game has to offer.
I'm not talking about the costs to get your first set, those are fine based on what we know. I'm talking about outfitting boff,s the extra ships where supposed to be getting at admiral rank, or BoFF's for the new BoFF friendly ground content.

One set is going to be 108K at current values. Weapons are around dl store prices. So call that 20K apiece. That for a single science vessel is 120K Dil. Again expensive, but bearable. Now a ground set, another 108K Again bearable, even with the other 3 add on if getting a bit harsher.

Now start having to outfit 4 more boffs and an unknown number of ships when we get the admiral rank. basically take those costs and multiply them several times over, (assuming we get as many ships at admiral in our personal fleet as we get boffs on ground it's a 5X multiplier).

That?s my point, several 100K to outfit one ship fully is ok. But having to repay that for every boff, extra ship, or alternate build is WAY too harsh. Though alternate builds could be handled I guess by allowing a project that lets you turn in one set piece for another different one.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,462
# 10
10-28-2012, 11:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
We're reviewing the Dilithium costs associated with gear - both direct-reward projects, and the store prices. It's likely they will fall some, though we're not entirely certain by how much, just yet.

I'd like to point out that Store Unlock projects have no Dilithium cost in the project itself. So, should you choose to unlock the store, and then end up deciding not to purchase any of the items you now have access to, these actions won't deplete your Dilithium reserves.

Thanks for the feedback!
Is there any way for us to view store and get things out of it for testing purposes since you did mention theres no way we can get to tier 5 before it goes live for both reputation systems?

Is mostly what I want to test out but can't find any way to access these items.
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