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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 633
As a result of an ongoing discussion I decided to get busy doing some tests on how consoles, skills points and weapons power interact with each other and how all this interacts with tac buffs. The tests where all done with energy weapons, so the results may be different for projectile weapons, i'd need to check.


1. All tac buffs, (plus APO), are straight multipliers on damage after all other effects. If several are active then the modifiers stack additively with each other and the final total is the multiplier.

2. Consoles only provide half the listed boost to damage and this boost is applied to the weapons base damage before skill point bonuses are added on.

3. Skill point bonuses are then added on separately of this total, in effect consoles neither benefit from skill points, nor themselves benefit skill points.

4. Weapons power is a multiplier on the total damage after additions from consoles and skill points. It is not additive with consoles as many have claimed as the benefit from consoles, (in percentage terms), remains constant from 50 power to 125 power. However at power settings below 50 the Console bonus does in fact begin to decrease. I have no concrete theory for this behavior except to suggest that an entirely separate and different formulae is used at below 50 power than at above 50 power and that at these setting the consoles interact differently with weapons power.


5. Tactical Fleet's listed damage modifier is wrong. It's actually 17.5%, not 30%.


So here's the current actual formulae for damage at weapons power setting of 50 or more:


(B + (B*S) + (B*(C/2)))*(0.02*(W-50)))*(APA+TF+APO+GDF)

Where:

B = Base weapons damage without Skill or any other modifiers.

S= Total benefit from skill points as decimal, (0.5 at 9 point sin all relevant skills).

C = Total console benefit as a decimal, (1.5 for 5 MkXII purple consoles).

W= Weapons Power

APA = Attack Pattern Alpha (0.5 at 100 Attack pattern skill)

TF = Tactical Fleet (0.175)

APO = Attack Pattern Omega (0.25 at 100 attack Pattern Skill)

GDF = Go Down Fighting, (0.248 at 100% hull remaining)


Figured te PvP forums would be the most intrested in the results, still need to figure out how BoFF skills besides APO interact with this though, mainly BO.


Okay BO worked out.

It adds damage to the base damage that is then multiplied by everythign else, (consoles, weapons power, tac bufs, everything).

The modifiers are +500% for BO1, +625% for BO2, and +750% for BO3. Or more simply base damage multiplied by 6/7.25/8.5.

Last edited by carl103; 11-07-2012 at 05:39 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 437
# 2
11-07-2012, 06:09 PM
Thank you for putting in the time and effort with this. For all new and old players alike it will help get a better understanding of how things fit together.
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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,850
# 3
11-07-2012, 06:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by carl103 View Post
1. All tac buffs, (plus APO), are straight multipliers on damage after all other effects. If several are active then the modifiers stack additively with each other and the final total is the multiplier.
oh, having 5 tac consoles isn't that big of a deal. SURE. RIGHT.

the tac buffs multiply the adjusted tool tip displayed damage huh? from what i've seen i'll believe that. no wonder 5 console ships hit so much harder when fully buffed.


good job doing all this testing
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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,764
# 4
11-07-2012, 07:04 PM
I thought all Tac buffs where suppossed to be applied to base weapon damage?

So the effects of ApA buff my base DHC damage, then CRF buffs the base DHC, then ApO, etc. Not ApA buffs then CRF buffs (ApA+base) then ApO buffs (ApA+CRF+base)m etc.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,104
# 5
11-07-2012, 07:15 PM
algebraic.

*horizon consumes data*

have fun kill bad guys
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,123
# 6
11-08-2012, 08:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
oh, having 5 tac consoles isn't that big of a deal. SURE. RIGHT.

the tac buffs multiply the adjusted tool tip displayed damage huh? from what i've seen i'll believe that. no wonder 5 console ships hit so much harder when fully buffed.


good job doing all this testing
I checked to see how much more my DPS increased when I went from 3 to 4 mk XII purple consoles, and it went up by 90-ish.

I expect it to go up another 90-ish when I get my Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit.

This was when I was orbiting ESD, so all of the modifiers should have been in play.

I believe, with all of the attack buffs, it will probably only increase the DPS by 500-1000 if you add all of the weapons together.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 157
# 7
11-08-2012, 10:39 AM
ok it does add what the exact %. but it is off the base base damage it might be a mk I but my math was off of the standard issue.

it is harder to test if you are not level 1 about get a standard issue beam array and any console you want. it will match very close. hover over the stauts menu to see. no matter what the console you pick will always add the same mount.

i have to do some shopping. so when my son takes a nap i will see what i can come up with.

my standard issue beam array was 102 then i add a 22.5% console and it went to 124.5

the math said it should be 124.95. but i am at level 50 so the base is more then like 100.

like i said i will get back to you.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 633
# 8
11-08-2012, 12:11 PM
No problem having been asleep and having got more than 5 brain cells lined up your littile formulae makes sense.

TheB value in my formulae is bassiclly the base damage modified for Mk and Rariety. A Mk 10 once you knock skill and consoles off is just fractionally over +100% base damage with the lv50 modifier added in. This means the two skill benefits would appear to be +25% ech, not +50%, and the console base magnitudes would also appear to be halved. In fact when i use your exact math i get the exact return is should, (a 26.2% console was actually showing a 12.7% boost and skill points where 48.7% total but i put the variable down to statsital errors due to the small numbers involved, but if i account for the fractionally larger than base 100% modifer from Mk and rareity i can replicate exact numbers).

I'm still going to try and confirm it with some Mk12 whites though, just to be absolutly certain everything is working as we think. I also want to check each skill in turn as i've seen other data that's conflictoray about this. Also i want to know how tis interacts with my BO deductions. I suspect BO may actually be a +1200/1500/1700% base damage modifier but we need to confirm that.


For whoever asked earlier i think crits et all multiply the final output.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,103
# 9
11-08-2012, 12:34 PM
Consoles add a flat amount that doesn't care what the weapons actually damage is from mark or rarity, just the type. Simple way to test is to equip two weapons of the same type but different mark.

Test was done on toon with NO skill points invested at level 50 with no relevant accolades at 50 weapon power.

Mk 6 white tetryon beam array with 0 consoles gives 159.2 DPV, 2 consoles (52.4%) change damage to 211.7 DPV an change of 52.5 DPV

Mk 11 purple tetryon beam array with a single [Dmg] mod and two other mods with 0 consoles gives 222.7 DPV, 2 consoles (same as before) change damage to 275.2 DPV a change of.....52.5 DPV

Follow up test, 0 consoles, 50 weapon power, maxed tier 1 Weapon skill ONLY

Mk 6 white tetryon beam array deals 208.7 DPV, or 49.5 DPV increase
Mk 11 purple tetryon beam array deals 272.2 DPV, or a ..... 49.5 DPV increase

I don't pretend to know what they are a % of, nor do I care. But they only take into account the weapon type beam array/cannon/etc.

The actual DPV formula is pretty simple to my understanding but I do not pretend to know the details of how a weapon gets it's numbers from.

Weapon + Console Mod + Skill Mod = Base
Base * Power Mod * Damage Mod from abilities/accolades/etc = Raw DPV
Raw DPV * Enemy Resistance Mod = True DPV

What the Console Mod and Skill Mod are derived from I have no idea. It is a % of a number based on the weapon type and I'm guessing character level possibly. Skill Mod works the same way. What does this mean you ask?

Every single upgrade you gain, be it a better weapon or better console, has a negligible effect on your actual DPV because of how everything gets added together instead of multiplied.

This is also why Tac captain abilities are so insanely strong at increasing your DPS along with resistance debuffs like Attack Pattern Beta.

Last edited by bareel; 11-08-2012 at 01:03 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,483
# 10
11-07-2012, 07:19 PM
IIRC, there was a ship's tier multiplier as well. But, that may have been w/the old skill system.

(B + (B*S) + (B*(C/2)))*(0.02*(W-50)))*(APA+TF+APO+GDF)

Also, if B = 1 and no tac boosts and 125 weapon power and B=1

(1 +(1*.5) + (1*.5))*(0.02*75)*(0+0+0+0)=(1+.5 +.5)(1.5)(0)=0

Something seems off and how you wrote your formula.

Perhaps,

(B + (B*S) + (B*(C/2)))*(0.02*(W-50)))*(APA+TF+APO+GDF) + (B + (B*S) + (B*(C/2)))*(0.02*(W-50)))

since often the tac multiplyer would be less than 1?

Edit: Also, irrc the weapon power influence was nonlinear.

Last edited by p2wsucks; 11-07-2012 at 07:25 PM.
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