Ensign
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 26
# 1 Fun Tank/DPS Ship mix for Engi
11-14-2012, 06:14 PM
I ve been using the Heavy Escort Carrier lately and been away the last 2'ish seasons and was thinking on trying one of the mroe tankish ships while sitll retainign some DPS, was thinking about these 2:


1/ Odissey Tactical Cruiser
2/ Dreadnaught Cruiser

Do these ships are still good enough with the oens included on the fleet bases (I really have no idea about those since they havent been added to the spidermitch charts)

So which one would you guys think would suit me best of goign tankish while stillr emainign some decent DPS

Are the fleet issue ships so good that the others dont really work anymore? how about the weapons and consoles sets? are fleet issue oens above everything else?

Thank you!
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 2
11-14-2012, 06:35 PM
You're an engi right? Don't take this the wrong way, but what the heck were you doing in an Armitage??

That being said, I too main an Engi, and when I want a good mix of DPS and Tankiness, Oddy all the way. Don't get me wrong, the Dreadnaught is a tanky mofo, and can equip DHCs, but she lacks majorly in the important place: BOff slots. The Oddy has that wonderful Uni LtCmdr, which basically makes her able to fit any role you need, and if you need tactical, she delivers.

Now if money is no object, I would recommend you get the 3-pack, take the Chevron Sep off the operations cruiser and put it on the tac cruiser. Hit that baby, and all of a sudden you have +20 power to weapons and a massively boosted +8 to turn rate. Not nearly as clumsy anymore. You will suffer some loss in HP and shield, but that's mitigated by your much higher move speed and turn rate, and dramatic increase in firepower (yes, the power increase makes that much of a difference). You combine that with LtCmdr Tac slot, and you got a nice beasty there.

Since I am guessing this is for PvE, I will give you a nice PvE setup I have found works well for smacking NPCs around.

Odyssey Tactical Cruiser

Weapons:
Fore: BA of your choice x3, Quantum Torpedo x1
Aft: BA of your choice x4

Shields: MACO
Deflector: MACO
Engines: MACO/AssimilatedSubtranswarp Engines (you don't get the 2 piece set bonus anymore, but it still gives +5 to engine power, which is a good thing, esp for an oddy)

Consoles:
Tactical: Whatever BA type you're using booster x3
Engineering: Neutronium x4/Neutronium x3 RCS Accelerator (you lose out on about 7-9% defense, but you gain another 2.6 degrees turn rate, your call)
Science: Chevron Sep Console, Field Generator, Assimilated Module (again, you don't get the bonus anymore, but +5 weapons power, additional crit and crit severity are all good for DPS)

BOff Setup:
Lt Tactical: TT1, APB1
LtCmdr Tactical: TS1, BFAW2, APD2
Cmdr Engineering: EPtS1/EPtW1, EPtS2/EPtW2, ET3/RSP2, Aux2SIF3
Lt Sci: TSS1, TSS2
Ensign Sci: HE1

(note about the engi BOff: only put one or the other for the EPtX. I don't know which you prefer, nor how you play, so you might need the extra power bonus from EPtS2 over EPtW2, but if you put EPtW1, do NOT put EPtW2, and same goes for EPtSX. One or the other, not both)

DOff Setup:
Conn Officer x2 (Tactical Team CD red)
Damage Control Engineer (x2)
Technician x1
Warp Core Engineer x1 (if only 1 Damage Control Engineer)

With that setup, you will be able to deal roughly 3700 DPS with minimal effort, and cap out at 5k for short periods of time (usually only 20-30 seconds duration every 3 minutes). You'll have good sustain from the BOffs, and the DOffs will give you good cycling ability with your EPtX.

You will notice I did not put mk levels or specify weapon type (except for the quantum part). This is due to I don't know your means, so I don't know if you can get the mk XII stuff, and I also don't know your personal preferences, so I can't recommend a specific energy weapon type.

Enjoy.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 138
# 3
11-14-2012, 06:39 PM
Legit settup right there ^

Sadly, engineers are only at their best in cruisers.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 39
# 4
11-14-2012, 07:02 PM
Engie in an escort means...you have a more survivable escort. You won't have the Tac captain's ability to boost damage, but I don't think that automatically means you shouldn't be flying one.

I've never really been sold on the idea that Engies *ought* to stick to cruisers, but if you are looking for 'tankage' then yeah that's where you probably should be looking.

My Engie currently flies a D'Kora, and that one certainly has some potential towards meeting your DPS/tankage theme.
Ensign
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 26
# 5
11-14-2012, 07:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
Very nice and lenghty explanation

First of all i would like to thank you for your amazing and veryd etailed explanation it has helped me inmensely.


I use the Heavy Escort because i kidna liked the mixture of very nice dps and fast escort combat and adding some fighters hehe but i have grown wanting to try cruiser combat again.

I guess ill go and buy the 3 pack like you recomended me.

As for energy type i was using the dual heavy antiproton cannons so i guess ill stick with antiproton sicne they look red and nice, however im not sure if theya re the right energy choice anymore, i rememebr them being classified as best dps before.

The boff setup the acronyms are still a bit of a mystery to me but ill try to make sence of them hehe, guess the break makes me feel very newbish again hehe.

MACO stuff is gotten now at later tiers of the new reputaitons right?

Also a bit about fleet issues, I guess this ship is not made obsolete by the enw fleet issue ships introduced in the last season?

Also i have managed to get around 50,000 fleet credits which i gues sis not much/enough by any margin but what would you spend them first on? Weapons?

Thank you again for all the help guys!
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 6
11-14-2012, 11:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by encadi View Post
First of all i would like to thank you for your amazing and veryd etailed explanation it has helped me inmensely.

I use the Heavy Escort because i kidna liked the mixture of very nice dps and fast escort combat and adding some fighters hehe but i have grown wanting to try cruiser combat again.

I guess ill go and buy the 3 pack like you recomended me.

As for energy type i was using the dual heavy antiproton cannons so i guess ill stick with antiproton sicne they look red and nice, however im not sure if theya re the right energy choice anymore, i rememebr them being classified as best dps before.

The boff setup the acronyms are still a bit of a mystery to me but ill try to make sence of them hehe, guess the break makes me feel very newbish again hehe.

MACO stuff is gotten now at later tiers of the new reputaitons right?

Also a bit about fleet issues, I guess this ship is not made obsolete by the enw fleet issue ships introduced in the last season?

Also i have managed to get around 50,000 fleet credits which i gues sis not much/enough by any margin but what would you spend them first on? Weapons?

Thank you again for all the help guys!
Here's the general breakdown:
Oddy 3 pack is ONLY if money is no object. If money however is something you need to pay attention to, then I actually would not recommend the Oddy. If you have money issues, I would actually recommend the Regent. It's the Assault Cruiser variant, but due to it's Universal BOff slots, it's got some good possibilities. And it's a nice looking ship.

As for Acronyms, I'll type in BOff slots again, only fully this time:

Lt Tactical: Tactical Team 1, Attack Pattern Beta 1
LtCmdr Tactical: Torpedo Spread 1, Beam Fire At Will 2, Attack Pattern Delta 2
Cmdr Engineering: Emergency Power to Shields 1/Emergency Power to Weapons 1, Emergency Power to Shields 2/Emergency Power to Weapons 2, Engineering Team 3/Reverse Shield Polarity 2, Auxiliary to the Structural Integrity Field 3
Lt Sci: Transfer Shield Strength 1, Transfer Shield Strength 2
Ensign Sci: Hazard Emitters 1

Also another pointer:
If you are going to use Anti-Proton, I wish you luck finding the weapons, since they are not cheap at all (last I checked was 1 mil per BA, but that was a while ago) -.-

And the mag regulators (AP damage boosters) run around 800k on the exchange (atm).

As for the best DPS claim, that comes from the natural 20% crit severity, so they have high damage potential, but no actual proc.

MACO is available in the higher tiers of the rep system, but if you're from S6, you should already have at least a mk XI set, but if not, then I would recommend using either A) Jem'Hadar set (not as powerful at all, but a good intermediate set), or B) Aegis Set (another good intermediate set, since it can carry you to the STF elite sets). Or you can do what I did before I got any of that, and make a mix and match of mk XII shields, deflectors, and engines. If you do that, I would recommend a resilient shield array with boosted regen and capacity, a positron deflector array with boosted structural integrity field and shield systems (adds hp to your hull and shields), and as for engines... that one is up in the air, since most of them are about the same.

And on a final note:
The oddy really isn't made obsolete by the new fleet ships, she's actually about on par with most fleet cruisers.

Comparison of Fleet Cruisers to the Odyssey:

Odyssey Tactical Cruiser:

HP: 42000
Shield Modifier: 1.15
Consoles: 3 Tactical, 4 Engineering, 3 Science
Base Turn: 5
BOff Setup: Lt Tactical, Cmdr Engineering, Lt Science, Universal LtCmdr, Universal Ensign
+10 Power to Weapons
+5 Power to Shields
+5 Power to Auxiliary

Fleet Star Cruiser:
HP: 42900
Shield Modifier: 1.15
Consoles: 2 Tactical, 4 Engineering, 4 Science
Base Turn: 7
BOff Setup: Lt Tactical, Cmdr Engineering, LtCmdr Engineering, Lt Science, Ensign Science
+5 Power to all Subsystems

Fleet Heavy Cruiser Retrofit:
HP: 39600
Shield Modifier: 0.97 (I think that's wrong, but let's go with it for now)
Consoles: 3 Tactical, 4 Engineering, 3 Science
Base Turn: 8
BOff Setup: Lt Tactical, Ensign Tactical, Cmdr Engineering, LtCmdr Engineering, Lt Science
+5 Power to all Subsystems

Fleet Exploration Cruiser Retrofit:
HP: 44000
Shield Modifier: 1.15
Consoles: 2 Tactical, 5 Engineering, 3 Science
Base Turn: 6
BOff Setup: Lt Tactical, Cmdr Engineering, LtCmdr Engineering, Ensign Engineering, Lt Science
+5 Power to all Subsystems

As you can see, all the other cruisers have a higher base turn, but that's negated by the Chevron Separation Console. Starting with the Star Cruiser. More hull, equivalent shields, better turn, but not as much damage output. Heavy Cruiser has less hull, weaker shields, less damage output, but better turn rate. Exploration Cruiser has more hull, equivalent shields, but way more Engineering ability and as a result loses out on damage and a lot of utility.

So to answer your question, as you can see, the Odyssey is pretty much on par with the fleet cruisers.

As for your fleet creds? Wait til you have a tier 5 fabricator and get elite fleet weapons.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 7
11-14-2012, 11:21 PM
Well, for engineer it hardly matters tbh. You will have lowish dps anyway and great tank from your personal abilities.

Now if you were a tac in cruiser...that's a completely different beast and there is plenty of ways how to play that.

I'm playing fleet heavy cruiser retrofit with my tac lately (tooltips in shipyard and wrong), and compared to other choices I have is one of hell tough bastard that still has teeths and maneuverability high enough to take advantage of EWP and other useful skills. More hps than regent, better shields comparable dmg output with better turn rate. Oh and it's small frame is great, most people misjudge for prometheus or vet ship, good thing in pvp.

Last edited by dalnar83; 11-14-2012 at 11:25 PM.
Ensign
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 26
# 8
11-15-2012, 04:55 AM
Thanks again for the answers, item wisefor ship iwas usign for the heavy escort

MACO XI Resilient Shield
Assimilated XI Deflector, Engine and Console

not sure how it is for a cruiser but i guess its mroe offensive'ish I think i got the jebndalar set on the bank so could use that.

If you were to choose another dmg type than antiproton what would it be? =)

Thank you
Rihannsu
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 20
# 9
11-15-2012, 10:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
You're an engi right? Don't take this the wrong way, but what the heck were you doing in an Armitage??

That being said, I too main an Engi, and when I want a good mix of DPS and Tankiness, Oddy all the way. Don't get me wrong, the Dreadnaught is a tanky mofo, and can equip DHCs, but she lacks majorly in the important place: BOff slots. The Oddy has that wonderful Uni LtCmdr, which basically makes her able to fit any role you need, and if you need tactical, she delivers.

Now if money is no object, I would recommend you get the 3-pack, take the Chevron Sep off the operations cruiser and put it on the tac cruiser. Hit that baby, and all of a sudden you have +20 power to weapons and a massively boosted +8 to turn rate. Not nearly as clumsy anymore. You will suffer some loss in HP and shield, but that's mitigated by your much higher move speed and turn rate, and dramatic increase in firepower (yes, the power increase makes that much of a difference). You combine that with LtCmdr Tac slot, and you got a nice beasty there.

Since I am guessing this is for PvE, I will give you a nice PvE setup I have found works well for smacking NPCs around.

Odyssey Tactical Cruiser

Weapons:
Fore: BA of your choice x3, Quantum Torpedo x1
Aft: BA of your choice x4

Shields: MACO
Deflector: MACO
Engines: MACO/AssimilatedSubtranswarp Engines (you don't get the 2 piece set bonus anymore, but it still gives +5 to engine power, which is a good thing, esp for an oddy)

Consoles:
Tactical: Whatever BA type you're using booster x3
Engineering: Neutronium x4/Neutronium x3 RCS Accelerator (you lose out on about 7-9% defense, but you gain another 2.6 degrees turn rate, your call)
Science: Chevron Sep Console, Field Generator, Assimilated Module (again, you don't get the bonus anymore, but +5 weapons power, additional crit and crit severity are all good for DPS)

BOff Setup:
Lt Tactical: TT1, APB1
LtCmdr Tactical: TS1, BFAW2, APD2
Cmdr Engineering: EPtS1/EPtW1, EPtS2/EPtW2, ET3/RSP2, Aux2SIF3
Lt Sci: TSS1, TSS2
Ensign Sci: HE1

(note about the engi BOff: only put one or the other for the EPtX. I don't know which you prefer, nor how you play, so you might need the extra power bonus from EPtS2 over EPtW2, but if you put EPtW1, do NOT put EPtW2, and same goes for EPtSX. One or the other, not both)

DOff Setup:
Conn Officer x2 (Tactical Team CD red)
Damage Control Engineer (x2)
Technician x1
Warp Core Engineer x1 (if only 1 Damage Control Engineer)

With that setup, you will be able to deal roughly 3700 DPS with minimal effort, and cap out at 5k for short periods of time (usually only 20-30 seconds duration every 3 minutes). You'll have good sustain from the BOffs, and the DOffs will give you good cycling ability with your EPtX.

You will notice I did not put mk levels or specify weapon type (except for the quantum part). This is due to I don't know your means, so I don't know if you can get the mk XII stuff, and I also don't know your personal preferences, so I can't recommend a specific energy weapon type.

Enjoy.
only thing I would change up here is putting a quantum in the back too so 3x BA and 1x quantum on both sides, and then using tetryon energy type. but I tend to like droping shields as fast as possible and then dumping torps into the hull of a ship as fast as I can.

flew the armitage loaded out with a dual heavy tetryon cannon in front, and 3 BAs in back.
was terrible on its own, but that thing could unload torpedoes in a way you wouldn't believe. if a teammate dropped the sheilds, that ship was gone in seconds. good torpedo boat.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 10
11-15-2012, 02:40 PM
Energy type other than Antiproton?

As I said, I don't know your playstyle. If you like just dumping huge amounts of damage into a target and give no craps about little goodies (aka procs), I would just stick with AP despite the expense. But if you like screwing with your target and causing them problems internally, phasers or polaron is the way to go for you. If you like stripping their shields and dumping torps, go with tetryon as the previous poster just said. If you like stripping shields AND screwing with subsystems, go with phased tetryon. If you want to reduce their defenses (overall a good thing for cruisers, since it increases your entire team's damage output) then go with disruptors. If you want to screw with their power levels while also reducing defense, then polarized disruptors for you. If you want to light them on fire, with the plasma (would not recommend that though, plasma procs are too weak for players), use plasma weapons.

As I said, I have never seen you play, I don't know your habits or tendencies, or your particular likes and dislikes, so I can't really give you an accurate recommendation. I personally run AP because I was able to get the practically free mk XII borg weapons, and I also was lucky enough to get the mag regulators before the price went through the roof.

But something to think about:
A particularly nasty setup I ran once that was both highly entertaining and surprisingly effective was this:

Fore Weapons:
3x Phased Polaron Beam Arrays, 1x Chroniton Flux Torpedo

Aft: 4x Phased Polaron Beam Arrays

I got all those weapons off of storyline missions, and as such, they cap out at mk XI, but the phased polaron gave me the tetryon shield strip proc, and the polaron energy drain proc, combined with the chroniton flux torpedo (a nasty little variant on the regular chroniton, I think it's proc chance is higher and it's effect is stronger than a regular chroniton) made life unpleasant for anything I was firing on.

But in the end I changed out because the damage output I was getting, while respectable, never went above 3k dps, which if an ESTF is unacceptable. So alas, I went to boring AP and quantums. Much higher dps, but not nearly as entertaining.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
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