I was in a mild shock yesterday, after I beamed down to New Romulus and spoke to Valoth...


Now first of all... we are talking about refugees from the Romulan homeworld. Groups of survivors trying to rebuild their lives and society. Starfleet approaches them, offering to help.... Starfleet... their sworn enemy! That they have been taught from the cradle are the most vile and untrustworthy creatures in the universe... Would YOU expect them to accept "help"?

So they refuse. And WHAT does Starfleet do? Against fleeing refugees? Preemptive strikes!!! To stop the Romulan refugees from rebuilding their society like they want!

This is actually making me cringe... I feel sick to my stomach! What RIGHT does Starfleet have to dictate the Romulan society? What gives them the right to used armed force against refugees? This is the most un-starfleet dialogue box I've EVER seen!!! To sum it up, Starfleet is:
- Taking side in an internal conflict.
- Trying to control the development of an alien society.
- Using armed force against civilians and refugees.

And if this wasn't enough...
Questioning your orders is NOT ok??? As long as we follow orders we are not responsible? Really? Starfleet Captains hiding behing a Nuremberg defense? This makes me sick!

We KNOW from Star Trek that this principle applies. We have seen Starfleet Captains reject direct orders from superior officers on many occations, based on their belief that the order given was unethical or unlawful. It's not only a choise, it's the obligaion of all Starfleet personel!

But in STO, I'm expected to not only accept this atrocity, but also to aid in it's execution!

Picard...would not...approve...

Starfleet is just trying to ensure a dictator doesn't come to power (Tal Shiar perhaps), they are moving their assets into Romulan space to help ensure the liberty of the Romulan people and in time help them on the road to democracy.

Technically this is still against the Prime Directive. Only a recognized government with the support of it's people who requests for help to the Federation can be considered as a legitimate non-directive breaking situation.

Helping refugees is one thing but having a hand in rebuilding a Romulan Empire is not.

omg... you're just as bad as them...

Starfleet knows whats's best for these people, right? Starfleet has a right to force it's principals on others, yes? By any means, you would say? The Starfleet way is the only right way? Anyone who feels different is just displaying a need of being shot?

This is the exact opposite of everything Trek is supposed to be about. Accepting other species, cultures and ways of thinking.

Exactly. By helping one, you may doom another. Starfleet has a policy of non-interference. It's there for a reason. Helping one faction in an internal struggle is unacceptable. If help/support is to be offered (like medi al supplies), it has to be offered equally to every faction.

The Federation is at war, if they didn't move into to Romulan space it would be wide open for the Klingon Empire to take. It's been shown several times before on TV how far Starfleet is willing to go, the ends justify the means.

Edit, I know the s7 backstory about the KDF-New Romulus has J'mpeck wanting to make the Romulans allies to fight the bigger threat, the Iconians but would the Federation accept that the Empire wouldn't attack the Romulans if they weren't there?

The federation is NOT at war with the romulan govenment, as there is not esablished Romulan govenment. They are trying to MAKE a Romulan govenment, in dire violation of the prime directive. It's the kind of behaviour you'd expect from Romulans, but not the Federation!

The end? Who can predict the end? If the Tal Shiar is stronger than the provintial government, Starfleet may have committed to support a minor faction in a civil war! To what end? To lead the Romulan people into opression by a Federation-supported military dictatorship. Does this sound like something worth killing refugees over?

And when the Tal Shiar home planet is destroyed (yes, it's their home too), they are not entitled to refugee status?

Kirks interpretation of the PD was... creative at best, still he held it to be the highest principal to guide us.


oh...
It's so nice of you to refer to these missions, where WE, as Captains, were forced and tricked into violating the prime directive severely, by an Undine infiltrator! I distinctly remember masacring a romulan research station because I was told they were hiding illegal weapons.... Yes, we killed them all, researches and cleaning personel. I was cringing when being forced though that outrage as well.

As for civilian, if there is no legit government, there can be no military. Para-military civilians at best. Even the Tal Shiar are a group of civilians working towards their own goal. Well armed civilianc, yes, and well organized, but still civilians!

Is the only part of my post that you read the ONE episode title where your arguments hold any water? That was the point of the episode. That we made a MISTAKE. It was not the best designed story mission, as most of us could see the twist coming a mile away, I know.

But what about all these other episdes I quoted. Where you disgusted by them? And personally I haven't encountered a single mission where our task is to instate a new goverment for the Romulan Empire.

You are ignoring the fact that they are the ones causing all the trouble. they have weapons and warships at their disposal.

they are attacking your ships, killing the remans, and even subjugating and experimenting on their own people.

they hunted and slaughtered the reman resistances family, hakeev tried to have you killed, they were running experiments that created those salt vampire things from the new mission, they are working with the iconians who who knows what. these are not friendly, innocent people.

you are not just killing random romulans because its fun, you are attacking the ones causing the problems in the region. yes it creates moral questions of 'do we have the right to deal with other empires problems' but if those problems threaten the security of the federation and its people then sometimes serious action has to be taken.

you say picard would not approve. he was the one how violated cardassian space to stop them from developing that bio weapon in chain of command. they would potentially have to kill cardassians to stop a greater threat, yet he did it.

Pvehero, Kirk made a career off interfereing off every planet they visited Sure some were for the best, but some were not

The Prime Directive's been violated a lot, and not just by him... at this point, it's one of those few-times-enforced laws that only some pay attention to. Sure Star Trek's message is what you said, but there is a lot of interfering by Starfleet as well.

And that was during more peaceful times. Imagine how much they loosened up when multiple wars are threatening them...

He even enhanced some of their gene pools.....