Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 146
# 1 Are Klingons really that tough
12-06-2012, 04:42 PM
I mean in any Trek series. They only seemed to act tough to me. I mean, how many times did we see Worf get thrown around in TNG (Michael Dorn actually complained that he was being portrayed as a wimp!)

Feats of Strength? Roga Danar physically overcame Worf, so did Riker in an episode

Resilent- with multiple organ backups? Usually they would be killed like anyone else, like in ST6, way of the warrior etc. They never seemed that impressive to me
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# 2
12-06-2012, 04:44 PM
Worf was not a true Klingon

Firstly he grew up raised by humans
in the wrong gravity ,eating the wrong food and believing in the wrong ideals

KOR would have torn his arms off
Lt. Commander
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# 3
12-06-2012, 04:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
Worf was not a true Klingon

Firstly he grew up raised by humans
in the wrong gravity ,eating the wrong food and believing in the wrong ideals

KOR would have torn his arms off
Klingons are supposed to be genetically, naturally stronger than Vulcans, who are supposed to be 3 times as strong as humans (DS9: Take me out to the Holosuite)
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# 4
12-06-2012, 04:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fedman70 View Post
Klingons are supposed to be genetically, naturally stronger than Vulcans, who are supposed to be 3 times as strong as humans (DS9: Take me out to the Holosuite)
No that's not the line at all. Sisko says that vulcans are faster and stronger than humans, bajorans and ferengi - then points to Worf and Bashir as the only exceptions. The only exceptions to what though? Faster or stronger? Or both? He doesn't specify. He doesn't say klingons are stronger or faster than vulcans, only implying they might be equivalent in one or both of those areas.

But c'mon, take one look at Bashir and another at Worf and tell me they both have equivalent strength.
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# 5
12-06-2012, 05:04 PM
Bashir is stronger , smarter , faster and tougher than ANY other character in DS9 (and could probably match data in some areas ) he is a genetically engineered biot

Your basic Klingon is tougher and harder to kill (hand to hand) than a human or even a Vulcan
The Vulcan is stronger and has better reflexes (in 1 G gravity)
However the Klingon is more angry , better trained and able to kill
Vulcans are revolted by violence especially if they are the one commiting it

Of course the average Vulcan is also slightly more intelligent than the average TNG Klingon

Original series Klingons are smarter than TNG Klingons and of course better dressed

Of course the most dangerous character in DS9 is actually ODO he is a perfect combatant and as long as no phasers were involved could kill Everyone
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# 6
12-06-2012, 05:13 PM
Bashir gets beaten up enough times on the show that the claim that he's the strongest guy on the show is obviously wrong.

His brain was genetically engineered because he had a developmental disorder. That doesn't mean he's suddenly Superman. He's only physically superior in terms of hand-eye coordination (beating Miles at darts) and reflexes (which is where the aforementioned 'Take Me Out To The Holosuite' becomes relevant).
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# 7
12-06-2012, 05:13 PM
Solivax has the base of it.
Klingons are the same intelligence as humans for the most part but physically they have a anatomy more designed to survive thier natural enviroment which was rather harsh and had fierce natural predators hence the laced ribs, cranial plates and many redundencies in vital systems.
How else did he survive the spinal surgery that near killed him if not in part due to his klingon phsyiology.
As well klingon have enhanced adrenal organ so to speak and that is what gives them tjier violent demeanor and ability to "push on" in physical duress.

Sadly they have had little focus on such aspects of the Klingon in the series of shows.
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Lt. Commander
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# 8
12-06-2012, 07:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stofsk View Post
No that's not the line at all. Sisko says that vulcans are faster and stronger than humans, bajorans and ferengi - then points to Worf and Bashir as the only exceptions. The only exceptions to what though? Faster or stronger? Or both? He doesn't specify. He doesn't say klingons are stronger or faster than vulcans, only implying they might be equivalent in one or both of those areas.

But c'mon, take one look at Bashir and another at Worf and tell me they both have equivalent strength.
No, watch the episode. Sisko mentions in the episode that he lost in a wrestling match to that Vulcan, and then Cassidy states "Well, what do you expect? Vulcans have three times the strength of a human" Then when they play baseball and he says that he says Worf is either faster or stronger, he's probably talking about strength, since that's what Klingons boast about

See, you're missing the point, if Worf was tough he wouldn't get beaten up so often, his wrist broken by Troi(under possession, but it was her technique, not strength that broke it), Pwed by Roga Danar, thrown around by a Borg drone, knocked out by the admiral in conspiracy, etc. When he actually fights and gets Pwned then we can say he really isn't that good. The only fights I remember him winning were against other Klingons, in combat, when he killed Duras and Gowron
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# 9
12-06-2012, 08:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fedman70 View Post
No, watch the episode. Sisko mentions in the episode that he lost in a wrestling match to that Vulcan, and then Cassidy states "Well, what do you expect? Vulcans have three times the strength of a human" Then when they play baseball and he says that he says Worf is either faster or stronger, he's probably talking about strength, since that's what Klingons boast about
I did watch the episode. I even consulted the script. Sisko doesn't specify that klingons are stronger, at most he implies they may have equivalent strength. Or that they have equivalent speed/reflexes. He wasn't clear.

And yeah Sisko got trounced in a wrestling match, but Sisko has also boxed Jem'hadar and Klingons so I don't think the latter have the same strength as vulcans do.

You have to consider the rest of the show and the rest of the context. Hell, Kira beats up Klingons in 'Way of the Warrior' - they simply cannot be physically stronger than humans.

Quote:
See, you're missing the point, if Worf was tough he wouldn't get beaten up so often, his wrist broken by Troi(under possession, but it was her technique, not strength that broke it), Pwed by Roga Danar, thrown around by a Borg drone, knocked out by the admiral in conspiracy, etc. When he actually fights and gets Pwned then we can say he really isn't that good. The only fights I remember him winning were against other Klingons, in combat, when he killed Duras and Gowron
No it's you who is missing the point I made about confirmation bias. All your examples - all of them - show extenuating circumstances. Troi was under possession by an alien and that may well have boosted her strength (did they establish Worf's wrist was broken? Having watched that scene on youtube it certainly doesn't look broken); Roga Danar was physically augmented by his people, so he likely IS stronger than Worf; Borg drones are stronger than anyone, even Vulcans (Tuvok was man-handled by a drone in 'Scorpion') thanks to their cybernetic implants; the parasitic beings in 'Conspiracy' boosted the bodies they were in. In other words the dice were loaded against Worf in those examples.

Worf's beaten up other klingons but he's also beaten up Jem'hadar, Romulans and other dudes. Jem'hadar are implied to be pretty strong, so go figure.

Quote:
How come these supposed "organ backups" don't come into play, if they were shot through the heart, the secondary heart should come online, unless an organ was damaged they didn't have a backup for, or bleeding, etc. I'm guessing they took a lot of abuse and damage evolving from the crustacean form we see in Genesis to what they are now, and thus developed those backups, but what good are they if they don't work when you need them to?
How come you are missing my point? That klingons did not evolve any resilience to rayguns. Bringing this up is irrelevant - they have organ backups but that's not going to save them from being vaporised by a disruptor, or stunned by a phaser.

On the other hand in 'Ethics' we see that those organ backups saved Worf's life when he otherwise would have died without them.
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# 10
12-08-2012, 05:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fedman70 View Post
No, watch the episode. Sisko mentions in the episode that he lost in a wrestling match to that Vulcan, and then Cassidy states "Well, what do you expect? Vulcans have three times the strength of a human" Then when they play baseball and he says that he says Worf is either faster or stronger, he's probably talking about strength, since that's what Klingons boast about

See, you're missing the point, if Worf was tough he wouldn't get beaten up so often, his wrist broken by Troi(under possession, but it was her technique, not strength that broke it), Pwed by Roga Danar, thrown around by a Borg drone, knocked out by the admiral in conspiracy, etc. When he actually fights and gets Pwned then we can say he really isn't that good. The only fights I remember him winning were against other Klingons, in combat, when he killed Duras and Gowron


Worf was pretty much Mr Badass of the universe in hand to hand combat by the end of DS9.
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