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Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 663
From the developers?

To start I want to present a huge thanks to our revolutionary Sargon. Havent it been for you, this newfound interest in pvp would never have taken place. I too want to thank Borticus and Brandon for showing their interest and supporting us from Cryptics side. Heck I wouldnt even dare write this post if the evidence I will now write about didnt present itself... as it did.

So...

Yes yes I know, its an old topic, debated, dicussed and beaten to death over and over. But NOW my pvp friends on both sides, we have come to a turning point, to our Stalingrad. Thanks to the pvp Boot Camp, we the community have finally spoken. Long ago a certain dev gave in to despair and wrote the following, i quote:


"Before I was given PVP I had other day to day and week to week tasks that filled out my schedule. I had STF's and other stuff. That other stuff is being moved off of my plate to other new content designers. Which by the way is a answer to another question I noticed earlier, the fact that we now have a few more people in the design department is a direct result of PWE. If we didn't have additional staff, this wouldn't be happening.

Oh and for the record... I asked to be given PVP, it wasn't forced on me. I personally think it has a great deal of potential, it just needs attention."

"Right now because PVP is in such bad shape we (the developers) have to decide if we think we can turn this problem around. Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way."

End quote.


Well well, do I got a newsflash for you!

If we exclude the current active to semi active pvp population, we have in this thread the hard evidence. There are more then 200 applicants ALONE who says pvp MATTERS to them. And this thread is growing and growing and still very fresh! So I ask and that very zealously: Does the Senior Devs still think pvp isnt worth commiting resources towards when we the paying customers show such a huge interest in pvp exist?

If you ask me its about due time! 2 bloody years of neglect, that now more devoted time and hard resources should be commited towards this aspect of the game. In the end it was we, the PLAYERS of this wonderful game that managed to demonstrate that we WANT a functional and developed pvp. Whats sad is that the game developers who are suppose to promote their game in all apsects, both pvp and pve, failed at this. Still there is room to forgive and improve, to realize that the pvp aspect of the game is now on the move. We refuse to be neglected no longer.


So what say ye?
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 95
# 2
12-12-2012, 05:08 PM
I used to login a few hours a day everyday to pvp i loved with a passion it was so fun. Now i only play a match or 2 the fun is almost completely gone. I used to have 9 active toons i am now down to 3 and soon might be less because i can't keep up with the grind " i dont like pve" i havent registered to the boot camp because i feel the situation is hopeless and don't have the energy right now to help. Over the years i have helped 100 of players with builds and play styles. Most of them don't pvp anymore because there is no reward attached to it and i can't blame them it's a sad situation.

For most players pvp is something you do while waiting for pve cooldowns.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 3
12-12-2012, 05:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by linkdown1 View Post
Most of them don't pvp anymore because there is no reward attached to it and i can't blame them it's a sad situation.
This. This right here. This is the crux of the problem. There aren't enough rewards associated with PvP activity. From a resource-gathering standpoint, there's zero reason to do PvP over PvE. It doesn't even reach parity. I don't even think you can reach your daily refining cap off of what's offered for PvP. If you can, then you probably can't do it every day. . .because there's some sort of weird time-gating system with a few of the missions that makes them disappear for 3-4 days at a time.

Want to revitalize PvP? Attach some real effing rewards onto it. Make the 'Ship Killer' mission against the Feds into a 20-30 ship count mission and boost the reward to 1k/1.5k dilithium. Give us specific ship kill missions (kill 10 science ships, 10 cruisers, 10 escort, w/e). Establish a decent system of rewards, and you'll see a lot more people trying their hand at it. That, combined with efforts like the Boot Camp, and other efforts by helpful PvPers, will help make PvP something relevant to the game at large.

Another suggestion would be this: Establish an in-game ranking system, tied with the factions at large. I.E., every time a KDF player defeats a Federation player in space, add a point onto the KDF side. Vice versa for Feddies. Also establish an individual-level system, so that players can compare and contrast the amount of kills they have and compete over that.

Fix Ker'rat so it's not a buggy POS (complete with stretching Borg ships, Borg and player ships getting stuck in the environment, etc) and increase the user capacity of each zone. While you're at it, add more spawnpoints and get rid of the moronic 'restart spawning Federation and Klingon players at the same point'.

There's no shortage of ideas as to what could be done, and I'll bet they would make PvP a lot more appealing to players who want more of a challenge, but don't see the point of doing PvP due to lack of rewards.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,052
# 4
12-12-2012, 06:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelingmaster View Post
This. This right here. This is the crux of the problem. There aren't enough rewards associated with PvP activity.
It's a curious thing, imo, how normally I would suggest that the PvP itself is reward enough for and from the PvP...

I generally believe that. I kind of prefer that - in casual PvP games. In more...I hate to use the term hardcore...pressing PvP games, where you're fighting for territory - your city - etc, etc, etc - literally, not just faction - but if you lose, you lose big... well, there are those additional rewards, etc, etc, etc.

However, I can't really make that argument in this case - not for STO the way it currently is (especially now during the Winter event as well).

So I'm running four toons.

Now each of these of these has different time requirements...

But I'm running four toons.

And I'm grinding:

EC to pay for Rep stuff.
Dil for items that I've gotten and I'll eventually get from the Rep stuff.
Romulan Marks (as if a Red Alert will ever work for me again).
Omega Marks (only doing Infected Elite (others regular), because I'm not risking my time on failing other ESTFs).

I'm also DOFFin'.
I'm doing the daily race for the Chel Grett.
I'm doing the FE Reruns (because stupid me has a stupid tendency to delete my stupid toons).

During this time, I'm also working on their builds - doing replays for different gear, buying more DOFFs to try different things, buying gear to try different things, etc, etc, etc.

Before S7... even with rerollitis, it took no time to level (have done it too many times, so it's fast) and then a night of STFs to at least be able to 2+2, 3, 4, or maybe even a decent 2+2, etc, etc, etc. Most of my time was therefore spent over in PUGland in the queues or hanging out in Ker'rat. The PvP was it's own reward.

There's just no time for PvP to be it's own reward at this point...meh.

I actually spent an hour in Ker'rat tonight - I got lucky with some drops I sold that meant I didn't have to do the EC farming bit. Course, it put me a little behind on my Marks and Dil farming... but I needed a break. It was a blast.

It's just not a blast that time really allows for these days...

...maybe in another week, I might do it again.
Vice Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer
V.S.S. Oracle, D'Kyr-class Science Vessel
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 381
# 5
12-13-2012, 06:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
It's a curious thing, imo, how normally I would suggest that the PvP itself is reward enough for and from the PvP...
My thought.


On the one hand it would help to get more rewards for PvP (more Dilithium, any kind of marks), on the other hand as more rewards you get for it, the more Leechers you will have on PvP maps again. I have the feeling that since Season 7 there are less leechers around on PvP Maps.

And the problem concerning the number of players on Space PvP is nothing compared to the numbers on Ground PvP. If you take a UTC+0 Point of View, there are only enough players at the evening hours. The other 18hrs of the day, there is not one single match starting.

What is definietly needed, are more maps and the removal of this invisible cubes embracing the buildings at Shanty Town. For weeks now, you are always running into invisible walls. These invisible cubes are about a meter more expanding than the building itself.

Last edited by zeratk; 12-13-2012 at 06:19 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 891
# 6
12-13-2012, 06:34 AM
If you add good rewards, people will queue up. It's really that simple. The "PvP itself is reward enough" only works if your comfortable having a really small PvP player base.

On the other hand, balancing a f2p game with a pay to win cash shop for PvP while not massively pissing lots of people off is almost completely impossible.

So if they do develop PvP more, you should probably never expect it to be even marginally close to a well balanced affair. I think some folks need to come to terms with that.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 366
# 7
12-13-2012, 06:37 AM
Quote:
I still think that the "101 How to PVP" on the main page every month would get a big increase in the PVP queues. Thats a lot of advertisement for a low cost.
It won't do anything to the queues.

Face it - you need to PvE a LOT, or even more just to be able to copete in endgame PvP. No new player will stay in PvP in the current state of the game cause they will NOT be able to compete with old(er) players. Not because of lack of skill and experience. Because lack of equipement, crew (DOFFs), passives, P2W stuff. End of story.

After s7 they could really delete PvP. Won't make huge difference for new players if PvP is here or not. It's pretty much unplayable from their perspective. If PvP stays it's only because either:
a) it will cost more to kill it then to leave it alone,
b) those old PvPers are spending more money on P2W and ships/lockboxes then PWE can save by killing PvP.

Harsh? Yeah, but I think how it is now. So I would not count on PvP getting any attention or getting any better. For this to happen they would need to turn the game upside down to the point of creating game mechanics from scratch. I doubt anything less can be made to the game without upsetting the PvE players which are, currently, the main revenoue source.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,052
# 8
12-13-2012, 08:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeratk View Post
On the one hand it would help to get more rewards for PvP (more Dilithium, any kind of marks), on the other hand as more rewards you get for it, the more Leechers you will have on PvP maps again.
Yep, I've never been a fan of the shiny sticker for participation that turns PvP into AFKfests or losing premades or... yeah, never been a fan of that. It's a dangerous route to offer rewards in PvP - because the "efficiency" crowd will find a way to ruin it.
Vice Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer
V.S.S. Oracle, D'Kyr-class Science Vessel
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,756
# 9
12-12-2012, 05:21 PM
my thought as well. look at all those people that are signing up in the thread, how can pvp development continue to be pushed aside now?

these arent all the people currently playing ether, a great many of them could be the teachers. from what i saw a large number of those signing up have a 1 by their experience. they would like to pvp, but its unapproachable to them, until now.

pvp needs attention from the devs, and it will be played. especially if a slew of new players will soon be equipped with the knowledge needed to compete. just look at the STF revamp, content that was hardly touched turned into the most played thing in game.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,325
# 10
12-12-2012, 08:00 PM
I think it's just too early to tell still.
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