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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 598
Now that they keep introducing more cruiser/escort hybrids, they need to consider revamping the turn rates for the existing cruisers. The Breen Chel Gret Cruiser is larger than the Excelsior and as wide as a Galaxy, yet they are giving it the base turn rate of a Chimira? I'm not going to even touch on the other Uberness of the ship, because that's a different subject. When it's base turn rate is 13, after adding player's skill tree, other consoles, and special engines, the ship will be just as fast and manuverable as a defiant. With the Galaxy, Odyssey, Catian Carrier, and Vo'Quv turning at rate of 6, it makes alot of the new cruisers look like they are on a sugar high. A turn rate of 8 at the least would be helpful in making these slow behemoth ships more competitive in PVP and n PVE.

Last edited by alexindcobra; 12-13-2012 at 08:54 AM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 2
12-13-2012, 10:21 AM
There is no need for ANY changes to cruisers

But people will disagree with that
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 91
# 3
12-13-2012, 10:31 AM
I agree with sollvax.

Cruisers are meant to be played broadsiding, and that's what they do best. No turning is necessary.

And this is coming from a tac in a cannon Fleet Excelsior. Would a better turn rate help me out, sure, but having something with 60K hull flying around like an escort would be a lot to ask for.

Besides, I have the Breen ship. I don't find it to be all that uber. Anything that can mount DHC's needs to have a slightly better turn rate. Otherwise it's useless.
Commanding Officer of Task Force Midnight
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Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,327
# 4
12-15-2012, 05:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by novathelegend View Post
I agree with sollvax.

Cruisers are meant to be played broadsiding, and that's what they do best. No turning is necessary.

And this is coming from a tac in a cannon Fleet Excelsior. Would a better turn rate help me out, sure, but having something with 60K hull flying around like an escort would be a lot to ask for.

Besides, I have the Breen ship. I don't find it to be all that uber. Anything that can mount DHC's needs to have a slightly better turn rate. Otherwise it's useless.
I disagree. the odys, the galaxy and the atrox and the botresque all need bumps to at least the slowest turning of the klink cruisers. it's demonstrated ON SCREEN the galaxy turns extremely well
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,926
# 5
12-13-2012, 10:32 AM
Agreed. Now the more massive ones, like the flagships I could understand if they don't change. But a lot of the others, could use an adjustment, same goes for a slower sci ship, like the Nebula.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 598
# 6
12-13-2012, 11:40 AM
If you guys don't think the cruisers should get a bump from a 6 turn rate to an 8 then , what do you think will happen when you fight against the new Chal Grett Cruiser with its 13 point base turn rate, Commander and LT Commander Tac BOFF slots, and console slots of an escort? Your broadsiding won't do crap to a ship like that.

If you fly assualt cruisers or excelsior class, they don't come with the over slow 6 point turn rate. The Excelsior comes with an 8 point turn rate so if you flying that, you can't complain. Everybody don't want to fly the same type of ship just to get a reasonable turn rate. Now there are more super ships comming out, there needs to be a balance to that or the fabric of tha game will fall apart. If the ship has a turn rate of 6 in needs an upgrade to be competetitive.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,699
# 7
12-13-2012, 05:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
If you guys don't think the cruisers should get a bump from a 6 turn rate to an 8 then , what do you think will happen when you fight against the new Chal Grett Cruiser with its 13 point base turn rate, Commander and LT Commander Tac BOFF slots, and console slots of an escort? Your broadsiding won't do crap to a ship like that.
So, its essentail a Fleet Armitage with one more gun and one less hangar and a weaker turn rate. They have the same hull hp can load dhc. The Chal Grett is in similar terms to the Fleet Armitage and the Chimera. Treat it as such, its not going to heal itself very well so keep on wailing at it. The Breen ship isnt the end of the world for Fed' cruiser captains.

I've been able to take down PvP Raptors and Vor'cha, The Chal Grett won't be that much different than the difference of those two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
If you fly assualt cruisers or excelsior class, they don't come with the over slow 6 point turn rate. The Excelsior comes with an 8 point turn rate so if you flying that, you can't complain. Everybody don't want to fly the same type of ship just to get a reasonable turn rate. Now there are more super ships comming out, there needs to be a balance to that or the fabric of tha game will fall apart. If the ship has a turn rate of 6 in needs an upgrade to be competetitive.
I have a feeling that even if you gave an Odyssey an 8 point turn rate, you'd still be upset. It still won't turn like the Excel' because its inertial value is worse. You could give the Ody' a 10 turn rate and my Excel' would still out turn it.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,714
# 8
12-13-2012, 05:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by neo1nx View Post
A few things too

1) the odyssey DAES have 6 degree base turn rate.
Check the cstore information or stowiki for that
And dont come here telling me that i should do better with the strenght of my ship when you dont even know the turnrate of your ship.

2) read my post carrefully, and re read it again, where did you see i want a ship as nimble as a negvar? 6+0.5= 6.5 exactly where did you see that as nimble as 8?

3) you find your odyssey to turn good? Fine so do i, just like i said in my precedent post

4) +0.5 degree turn rate= god ship? Is that a joke?

Cruiser are meant to be good tank, yes but some of them can have theeth also, see some klingons cruiser for that, and even the recently exelsior, regent, dkora.
It is not white and black in this world and so it is in this game.
So stop with your false preconsive idea, just like an other forumer told you recently, lately you lost the plot big time my friend.
Klingon cruisers are supposed to have firepower. They are KDF. Secondly, ok fine, you're right, the Oddy has a base turn rate of 6, even though last I checked it was 5. So either it changed and nobody told me, or the Wiki was wrong to begin with and somebody fixed it. And to your final point, .5 turn rate is HUGE for a cruiser. Add in skills and engines, that .5 can turn into a good 2 or 3 degrees. So no, not a joke.

Lastly, that bit about telling you to do better with your ship was a simple observation. I was just pointing out that cruisers aren't meant to really move around or turn. They are meant to be tanks. And last I checked, the tanks job was to take it's beating and be perfectly fine. Nowhere is a tank described as being highly mobile. At least not as games go (cuz tbh the Sherman tank was pretty nimble). And besides, you can't have it all. You need to sacrifice to gain. In this case, one can EASILY get their AC/SC/Odyssey to turn like a beast, and move like one too. But you will sacrifice survivability to do it. And I would rather keep my live forever over moving around thanks much.

Tbh, I just see this thread as a waste of time for the simple reason that they won't change anything, despite what we want/say/complain about. But I will say, this is an improvement over the majority of OPs other threads, since he actually posted up possible solutions instead of just complaining. Now if he wasn't so demanding, I think we'd have real progress here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krusso10 View Post
Not trying to start anything, just pointing out that despite what you said there is a major problem here. The breen ship makes all fed cruisers with offensive setups like the regent and excelsior pointless to use, which are both popular ships. A lot of fed players don't like using non-starfleet ships, I know a lot of people that don't want to use the breen ship because its not starfleet. Why should we have to suffer for liking the feel of Star Trek as it was in the shows and movies when the name of the game is Star Trek Online? Kinda defeats the purpose.
Is the Chel'gret from Star Trek? Yes. Was it one of the nastiest ships ever encountered by Starfleet? Yes. Was it one of the fastest and most maneuverable large ships ever encountered by Starfleet? Yes. Was it highly offensively oriented and a very effective combat ship in the show? Yes. Where is the in game version diverging from the show?

Nobody is forcing you to fly it. And it's not a very optimal tank. In fact, it's not even a cruiser. It's a warship. That's why it's called the Breen Chel'Gret WARSHIP. It's designed for combat, killing, ruining other people's lives. If you want to fly your Starfleet ships, go right ahead. There are still better combat ships than the Chel'gret, and there are still better tanks. It's just an effective hybrid, nothing else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neo1nx View Post
ho by the way, hereticknight.. just why do you call the dreadnought cruiser a failnaught?
i would really like to known.
i am sure it can't be because it is gimp...no it can't, it is good as it is, as all cruiser are.
so i really want to known why you calling it that.
I call it the failnaught because it's one of three fed non-escort ships that can use DHCs and DCs, and it's turn rate is abysmal. The ship is not aesthetically pleasing, and even though it has great potential, it's ruined by the fact it's a galaxy class. It's tactical BOffs are severely lacking for a ship that's supposed to be an attacker, and overall, it's just not a great ship. I call it a failnaught most specifically because I usually just see them failing. Players try to turn them into cannon boats, and get boned by someone just getting behind them and laughing as they only have to face turrets.

It's what is called an opinion. You know, those things people have? That may or may not be facts, but it's how they see things? Yeah. Those.

P.S. It's rude to call others noobs, especially not to their face unless you have specific and accurate information showing they are (which you don't), others who feel that way (which you probably do, but tbh I just can't be bothered to care, and I know many people who would disagree with that), and actual real hard evidence (like screenshots, videos, those kinds of things, which again I know you don't have). Also, what does the word "daes" mean?
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder. <--- DR proved me wrong!

Last edited by hereticknight085; 12-13-2012 at 05:28 PM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 15
# 9
12-13-2012, 06:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
Is the Chel'gret from Star Trek? Yes. Was it one of the nastiest ships ever encountered by Starfleet? Yes. Was it one of the fastest and most maneuverable large ships ever encountered by Starfleet? Yes. Was it highly offensively oriented and a very effective combat ship in the show? Yes. Where is the in game version diverging from the show?

Nobody is forcing you to fly it. And it's not a very optimal tank. In fact, it's not even a cruiser. It's a warship. That's why it's called the Breen Chel'Gret WARSHIP. It's designed for combat, killing, ruining other people's lives. If you want to fly your Starfleet ships, go right ahead. There are still better combat ships than the Chel'gret, and there are still better tanks. It's just an effective hybrid, nothing else.
I never said anyone is forcing me to fly it, I never said it is an optimal tank (although not optimal it can be made very hard to kill if you know how) and the whole point is that yes, I can fly starfleet ships and yes some are still effective, but the Breen ship still makes the offensive Starfleet cruisers obosolete in many ways, the only thing left is that they have a better boff setup for survival instead of damage, yet in pve you really don't need a whole lot of heals and defense buffs.

Yes it is from Star Trek, but as you also mentioned it has been encountered by Starfleet before, and now the availibility in the game implies that Starfleet has complete access to it, therefore why wouldn't they be able to adapt the technology that makes it so maneuverable from it to give exsiting cruisers a higher turn rate? Plus you miss the fact that in the show any ship outfitted for war was considered a warship (the Galaxy class Enterprise D was called a warship by other factions although by Starfleet designation it was a cruiser) and the npcs in the game are named Breen Chel'grett Cruiser, so where is this warship class coming from? That would imply that it is either not a warship or that it is not the original from the series, so the point is invalid.

I also decided to read some of your other posts, and saw that you are obviously in favor of OP ships and other players comment on the matter and you return with something saying that you spent a lot of time on it and refuse to view it as OP. So I see no more point in discussing the matter with you.

The whole thing has also become rather off topic from the thread, so I will not make any further reply on the matter.

Subject terminated.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 598
# 10
12-14-2012, 05:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whamhammer1 View Post
So, its essentail a Fleet Armitage with one more gun and one less hangar and a weaker turn rate. They have the same hull hp can load dhc. The Chal Grett is in similar terms to the Fleet Armitage and the Chimera. Treat it as such, its not going to heal itself very well so keep on wailing at it. The Breen ship isnt the end of the world for Fed' cruiser captains.

I've been able to take down PvP Raptors and Vor'cha, The Chal Grett won't be that much different than the difference of those two.



I have a feeling that even if you gave an Odyssey an 8 point turn rate, you'd still be upset. It still won't turn like the Excel' because its inertial value is worse. You could give the Ody' a 10 turn rate and my Excel' would still out turn it.
I own all of them and know how each one turns, so don't tell me what I will be satisfied with. Cryptic is calling the Chel Grett a Cruiser/Escort, then thats what it is. You speak so cocky now about defeating it but you haven't played against it yet. Raptors and Vor'chas are not special ships, they are the normal line ships. The Chel Grett is a special ship because you can only win it from grinding in a limited secial event. I know from experience that special ships in STO always come with uber powers and most always turn out to be ships from special events or lock boxes. The Jem'Hadar attack ship came with over powered weapons, engines, and tankiness, the Tholian Recluse came with extra power to flow capacitors to drain you dry faster than other science ships, and the temporal ships are science ship with escort powers and are quite hard to kill.
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