Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 51
Hello community,

I do want to fire this thread up to have a discussion towards the future of Star Trek Online disregarding Season 8 & 9 in the upcoming year. I do want to use the current state-of-the-game as a matter of example in order to fulfill my view points I am going to be explaining in just a second. As a matter of fact I am talking more as a player inside the game, ex-developer of previous games in other game areas such as RTS and as a financial observer in the current state of the economy based on the current seat of Cryptic Studios which is in the United States of America.

Point 1:
Cryptic Studios is a sole provider and developer of computer video games such as Star Trek Online, Champions Online, and the upcoming Neverwinter. Based on fact information is Cryptic owned by Perfect World Entertainment in the United States which makes most of its profits based on the PVE system in any of these games. As a developer stated "PVE is a feature that has been abandoned".

Point 2:
Based on point 1 we can assume that Cryptic has a team of about 40 people which develops and maintenance all of the three games above. The work though, from a developer view, is that working on these three games can be quite challenging to keep them different from each other in matter of balancing.

Why is PVE more interesting than PVP?
Most of the community inside a regular Free-2-Play system are solely interested in the PVE portion of the game. In a matter of fact PVP can be either challenging a player to become the best or simply give up cause it is useless to grind every little money to enhance towards PVP. This results in a turn-down for PVP. We take Star Trek Online for example as a reference here as we have multiple systems that make PVP unbalanced: DOFF System, Reputation system, different kinds of weapons, modifiers that out-balance each other from a statistical data, and simply exploits exist to advance or simply "cheat" the system. In fact a simply change in balance can destroy someone's PVP build which is a grief inside the community to constantly use respect tokens to adapt to the new balance of the game. In a less frequently game this would be alright in matter of spending money towards respec tokens.

Would be an entire Season be enough to recover PVP and make it more profitable for Cryptic?

Player Opinion: Yes
Developer Opinion: Semi no-yes.
Marketing Purposes: No

Explanation Why:

The regular player opinion looks optimistically towards the future in hope towards changes and a complete revamp of the PVP System.

In a developer opinion, in my point of view, it would mean to completely re-balance every component of the game such as weapons, consoles, systems (DOFF and Repuation), ships main information regarding Tiers 1 through 5 and create consistent PVP tests by the community on a PVP-TEST-ONLY Server disregarding PVE altogether. This would be !all! possible, but only if two separate PVE-PVP servers are created and are not colliding with each other on any basis.

In a marketing point of view it would be impossible to do so as the game heavily sits on PVE content and continues to do so. Not keeping up with PVE content can be a big loss of money for a studio if it does not develop enough continuation of existing systems. With a team of about 40!!! this is may not be possible while the work is of three games is spread out on everyone.


I do wish to hear other players opinion and also would like to invite the developers to this conversation as how to approach the upcoming seasons towards PVE and PVP. I took Business Administration as a college major and I am heavily involved with ongoing decisions regarding money and business management. Please do not use this thread to troll or anything similar as it should be a !productive! possibility of rescuing PVP, enjoy PVE in future, and prevent balance problems in future seasons.

Thank you.

PS: If you find any misspelled words, you can keep them .
Lifetime - Joined 2008 - U.S.S. Kilimanjaro - Inner Circle

Last edited by kanecabal; 12-23-2012 at 09:55 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,416
# 2
12-23-2012, 10:14 PM
At this point, there is no realistic way to restore PvP in STO. The Key things the PvP community has been asking since the launch of STO almost entirely been uninitated.
  • New PvP Maps (Not 1 or 2 simple maps, but many new maps).
  • PvP Balance
  • Purpose (some people like a reason to fight, like with Territorial PvP)
  • And of course the most intimidating reason why people don't like PvP is simply Veterans vs PuGs, in which PuG groups have no chance and eventually people give up, because they are tired of losing or feeling like they are target practice.
It's these things that have erroded the PvP Population significantly. If Cryptic is sincere with their wishes to restore PvP, they really have to do a complete overhaul and do it on a level where a regular PvErs with bad builds have a halfway decent chance to survive against a seasoned veteran, than being blown up in under three seconds.

And to add purpose like Territorial PvP (not a reputation system) with Open PvP where a PvEr can choose to enter a fight and participate in PvP, doing a a PvEvP mission (to contribute to the war effort), or do a PvE mission and support in their own way.


So unless Cryptic is willing to go to such lengths in the upcoming Season, their efforts in fixing the current PvP is near impossible and their time would be better spent on future PvE content and increase interest in the game.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 51
# 3
12-23-2012, 10:31 PM
I do have several options on how to recover certain aspects of the game. I would like to present them:

Option #1: Get rid of all modifiers for every weapon and create a stand alone weapon where as the different rarities make more damage, but where as the other person compared to the one who carries higher damage weapons still have the both the same chance that the shot misses the target.

Option #2: Create a exchange based on a + and - table where as weapons of higher rarities cannot be sold in tremendous amount of money making it unable for someone to reach it. This also goes for every other console including ships to create a non-inflation system.

Option #3: Separate PVE and PVP systems altogether and create two different balance sheets for both systems where as every balance sheet can be adjusted separately according to the Season update.

Option #4: Revoke every universal console as it is proven that universal consoles can be a game changing effect on both systems and/or include specific abilities within the ship without consoles.

Option #5: Revamp the entire system as it was mentioned before by a ex-moderator on the forum in order to make !all! ships accountable in every fight no matter how old or what kind of tier they are.


We can keep adding to it, but I think this is more of a foundation I would assume. Opinions?

And thank you azurianstar for participating.
Lifetime - Joined 2008 - U.S.S. Kilimanjaro - Inner Circle
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,416
# 4
12-23-2012, 10:55 PM
I agree with Option 3. I myself for 3 years have long argued that Cryptic have seperate values for PvP, similar to other MMOs like Everquest. That way if an ability is strong in PvP, it would not affect PvE (which has occurred many times).

Option 1, 2 and 5, sounds like it would require a major overhaul of the game in order to incorporate. And don't think Cryptic can afford such a gamble at this time. Not to mention it might not be very popular with the playerbase.

Option 4, also might not be popular since players due to them already invested currency into them. But could see a new PvP system that would turn them off or limit them in PvP (using Option 3).
Former PWE Community Team Lead
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 9,046
# 5
12-23-2012, 10:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kanecabal View Post
Point 2:
Based on point 1 we can assume that Cryptic has a team of about 40 people which develops and maintenance all of the three games above. The work though, from a developer view, is that working on these three games can be quite challenging to keep
Your assumption would be incorrect as there are around 50 devs (and growing!), ranging from production to QA, on STO team alone, and each game has their own dedicated team.

Cheers,

Brandon =/\=
Brandon "BranFlakes" Felczer | Former Community Team Lead for Perfect World Entertainment
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 51
# 6
12-23-2012, 10:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwebranflakes View Post
Your assumption would be incorrect as there are around 50 devs (ranging from production to QA) on STO team alone, and each game has their own dedicated team.

Cheers,

Brandon =/\=
That was based on older information that I currently had. I apologize for that, but that does still not solve the current state of the game.
Lifetime - Joined 2008 - U.S.S. Kilimanjaro - Inner Circle
Former PWE Community Team Lead
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 9,046
# 7
12-23-2012, 11:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kanecabal View Post
That was based on older information that I currently had. I apologize for that, but that does still not solve the current state of the game.
I didn't say it did But, once you guys start hearing about Season 8, which will be our largest update yet (by far!), you'll start to see what a full team will be able to bring to the game each season going forward. Geko recently tweeted, "[h]ad great story meeting today with the team. Season 8 story content is going to be HUGE!". From everything I've seen and heard about so far, I think "huge" may be an understatement.

As for PvP, there's been talk about a PvP reputation system (no ETA on release, but it's on the radar as a possibility), Fleet Marks being added as rewards, balance passes, and changes/ updates based on player feedback. This is evident by just a few of the very recent updates/ discussions (Trico changes, testing vendor, etc.) and the support that is being shown for PvP Boot Camp. While Boot Camp was a player initiated movement, it is overseen by me, supported by everyone at PWE and Cryptic (including creating a reward to give out to participants upon graduation) and will help drive up interest for PvP. This means more players in the queues, which means more players wanting to see PvP content, which means the greater possibility of us spending developer resources on it. I've been chatting with some of the content and systems devs about their ideas they have for PvP and they sound incredibly awesome. Drumming up interest in PvP will hopefully bring those ideas, as well as those we read in these forums, to fruition.

Earlier this year, the Foundry community and I worked on resurrecting the Spotlight on the Foundry. It was such a success that there is now a dedicated spot for spotlights in the in-game mission journal, as well as special rewards for them being added (these were in testing on Tribble but were not released to Holodeck due to a couple bugs that were found; we hope to have them on Holodeck very soon). Using this as a precedent, I'm very hopeful that the same will occur with PvP due to the increased interest that we'll see in PvP after the first class of Boot Camp participants graduate.

As a final word, it is without a doubt that we would like to see STO's PvP to be as epic as it's PvE content. The above will help us get there, and once we do, I can't imagine another game that could have as epic PvP as STO would have.

Cheers,

Brandon =/\=
Brandon "BranFlakes" Felczer | Former Community Team Lead for Perfect World Entertainment

Last edited by pwebranflakes; 12-23-2012 at 11:13 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 312
# 8
12-24-2012, 01:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwebranflakes View Post
I didn't say it did But, once you guys start hearing about Season 8, which will be our largest update yet (by far!), you'll start to see what a full team will be able to bring to the game each season going forward.

Cheers,

Brandon =/\=

I can't wait for Season 8

But will the bugs be as big as the storycontent? :-P

With the involvement of the devs in the PvP forum and the patch notes PvP gets more attention than ever. The PvP camp even had a spot on the STO front page !!!

I think we will see next year more updates and bugfixes for PvP than ever before.
But I'm not sure if a reputation system with more passives will be a good thing.
If they affect PVE too than you will have a lot of players who will whine that they want the new passives without doing PVP in order to be able to overcome the OP borg
Not to mention that you have another power creep and source of bugs in the game.

If you add more rewards for doing pvp you risk that even more AFK'loosers in teh queues.

Tricky situation xD
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,502
# 9
12-24-2012, 06:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwebranflakes View Post
This means more players in the queues, which means more players wanting to see PvP content, which means the greater possibility of us spending developer resources on it.

Worst approach EVER!

What happened to "build it and they will come"?

So you expect me to waist my time playing your crappy PVP to tell you to make more of it which you will see via Dataming and Statistics? ...
how about i tell you right now, i would love to PVP in STO, but yours is crap, make it better, invest some time, you have done nothing for it in 3 YEARS. Just like you have done nothing for exploration, unless something gamebreaking happens you don't touch that stuff.


Sorry, no 10 horses will get me to play your 2 Map PvP game any longer unless something actually interesting happens there.

There are plenty of other games out there and if you don't give me the player vs player experience that scratches that itch sufficiently, then i will just click on Battlefield 3 instead (and i have done so for 200+ hours so far (if you love statistics so much, here are some!). Granted my STO playtime is 3000+ hrs now, but very few of those are PvP hours).



If you can up your PvP queue numbers by financially cheap PR stunts like that boot camp one, good for you, but you won't see me participating, i don't need a boot camp i need fun gameplay.
A PvP Reputation System better comes with some uber epic PvP improvements, not just one new map or whatever and a requirement to play it 5000 times.

The best definition for your PvP i can think of would be: "Your PvP is what i would call a Demo Version, for a Game, that i get on Xbox Live for $10, and is fun for half an hour but you stick around for 5 hours and ask yourself WHY?!"


What you need/should/would be nice of you to do is build a PvP Game that is FUN, and then People will come on their own.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 163
# 10
12-24-2012, 09:24 AM
"There are plenty of other games out there and if you don't give me the player vs player experience that scratches that itch sufficiently, then i will just click on Battlefield 3 instead (and i have done so for 200+ hours so far (if you love statistics so much, here are some!). Granted my STO playtime is 3000+ hrs now, but very few of those are PvP hours)."



Try Planetside 2, it's free to download, and you're playing with thousands of players on the battlefield instead of Battlefields 64.

Someone mentioned earlier that new players come into pvp against old players who are decked out in the best gear, and they get destroyed. This happens in most mmos, like WoW, Guild Wars 2, etc. People who have been playing longer have the better gear. Guild Wars 2 has structured pvp, where everyone is using preset gear, so everyone basically has the same stats, but they can choose what kind of armor or weapons they want to use. Like one person may want to use a two handed sword with precision and vitality while someone else may want vitality and healing power.

I think STO could do something like this. Add a new form of pvp where you are only allowed to use preset ships with preset stats and abilities, then true skill would come into play; maybe this could be an arena type thing.

Last edited by chk231; 12-24-2012 at 09:29 AM.
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