/Newfound respect for game balance.

While, STO's balance has CONCIDERABLY Deteriorated, Maintaining balance is admitably difficult.

I just started working on building a video game (not even MMO)
Hardest part of the video game is Balance, You wouldn't think it either.

Balancing is hard, because your end is 980 damage (balanced On paper) but it becomes like 7399.8873 damage after skill mods. Balancing isn't just a few numbers. a Change from 100 to 99 can be a MASSIVE change ingame.

(I can say without doubt, hardest part of making my video game, is Storyline, and balancing)

So, fellow pvpers, stop being So hard on cryptic when ur yelling over balance. The numbers we give are incorrect for them, because they have to go through a bunch of hidden factors, before we even get a number. I have no idea what they are using to do balancing, so I don't really know, For all you know DEM doing 49 damage is actualy 3.77283123 in the dev tools.

So come on, be alittle easyer about balance. Now go back to being hard over content, C-Store, the AI... Adding an AI that uses Skills intelegently, IS NOT as hard as balance. Say on ground, give all NPCs Rechargable Hypos, Add line: When Health < 20% = Hypo. In Space, have NPCs Keep EPTS up, and a script to make then like, Hazzard emmiters to dispel debuffs, ONLY every 45s so they don't spam it. etc...

I dunno mate I play alot of games and yes it is true there are a ton of factors involved in pvp balance it is not that difficult. Otherwise so many other relatively balanced pvp games would not exist on the market today.

Where I draw the line and get really annoyed, balance wise, is two places. First off releasing obviously overpowered stuff. Like the fleet shields, reputation passives, and many other things that even on paper look insane.

Secondly is PvE balance. Yes PvP has a huge human element but PvE is much more controllable. However Cryptic has yet to even do the first step required for PvE balance and that is choose a philosophy.

Equal but Different, Holy Trinity, or Good at Different Content.

Equal but different: Check out Guild Wars 2 as the most recent example
Holy Trinity: Obvious
Good at Different Content: This is best represented in bad tabletop RPGs but an example in STO would be if Science Vessels got bonus anomalies scanned, Cruisers had the highest Warp speed, things like that. It is like when you have the really good social toon in the group that is horrid at combat but great outside of it.

Which one is STO intended to use? I have no clue. And if that much is not obvious then I will complain about it. I have done tabletop RPGs as DM for years and one of the big things I focus on is ensuring everyone at the table has fun and feels as if their character is contributing to the party/session in a meaningful way. When all 4 players think their character is the best you know you have done a good job. And really the philosophy chosen is just a matter of preference as they all can work out well depending on the style of game they just require a different form of encounter design and/or system design.

I've been trying really hard to come up with a response to this thread. I had a nice, long reply written, but couldn't bring myself to post it.

The fact is, that Cryptic has dropped the ball. There is no balance in any aspect of their game. PvE is just a DPS race. PvP is so full of universal consoles, rep-based gear, DOFF buffs and fleet/embassy gear, that almost anyone can perform any role they wish. There is no need for class balance anymore. Which has made the game horribly un-fun for anyone not flying a tacscort (the only role that still has meaningful synergy between captain skill and ship ablities).

The whole game needs a balance pass, and nothing should be left out. I don't care how much money people spent to get their stuff, if it isn't balanced, it needs to be tuned. There has to be a reason to bring a sci, a tac, and an engineer on teams (PvE or PvP). Right now, there really isn't, aside from the obligitory SNB (PvP only).

edit: In my opinion, this all boils down to the fact that PvE is too easy. The AI doesn't challenge players, and so many of them (players) are so horrible that Cryptic felt the need to make it even easier with a rapid Power-Creep that totally ignores class balance. Make PvE more challenging. Make the AI challenge players. Give us a reason to bring at least 1 of every class into every mission/instance.

No, i think anyone who hangs around a game long enough should appreciate how hard it is to have balance. I think we can all agree that its a massive task and only gets harder as more items, skills ships etc are implimented.

But other MMOs much older then STO have got balance, hell. Even some brand new ones are well known for it. And Cryptic is an MMO gamehouse, it's their "thing" so we should expect a lot more then what we have - whichis shoddy, illconceved and badly planned out.

How much would i squeal if a read a dev blog saying "We've hired these 10-15 people who are AWESOME at PVP and balance checks. We've given them a server to test in, a pot of lockbox money, a fridge full of RedBull and expect a x many PVP maps, y many gametypes, a rep system and a BALANCE PASS for 6 months time"

I'd squal until the neighbours came round and bopped me on the head.

Cryptic had a fairly well balanced game. Then they intentionally ruined balance by introducing the special consoles (I won't even start with the intentionally unbalanced lower tier c-store ships), doffs and having devs with no idea how the game works messing with the skill tree.

At this point, it is pretty much impossible to balance the game, because they introduced so many variables (including the incredibly bad idea of resist skills in the skill tree) that there is no reasonable way to balance around a mean value anymore. The variance between the effectiveness and/or frequency of abilities has been increased tremendously and the first step to balancing the game again would have to include cutting down on that variance. This in turn would require a change of the skill tree (at least of the math in the background), a change in hangar pet spawn mechanics and severe limitations on special consoles. In other words: it's never going to happen. They don't want to and even if they wanted to, the devs that they have are not smart and knowledgable enough to pull it off.

At this point, it's only a question of how much time we still have before cryptic introduces a gamebreaking ability/item with widespread adoption among the players that makes pvp unbearable and which they refuse to bring in line with our memories of S1.2-S3 balance.

That statement looks better and more correct now.

lol no reason to bring a sci? even in pve you need that sci healer so tacts can do dps. even in pve you need that engy healer. now for pvp why even bring an engy healer? tacts and sci is all you need. thats why in that 3v3 pandas got rolled. because we had a sci healer. now if its ground i can see your point. just stright tacts with mk12 fire team kit.

Aside from NWS, I have never seen any PvE content in this game that requires anything other than pure DPS. STF's? DPS is enough. Fleet Actions? DPS is enough and the only way to place high. Fleet Events? Again, DPS is enough. Can you provide an example, other than NWS, where anything other than DPS is required?

To be fair the fleet mission where you buy time for freighters to get out doesn't require DPS as much as it requires remote repairs and CC. In fact more often than not I'll see a Tac waste time killing NPCs that have already killed the freighter.

cure space elite, not for the klink ship but for the team on docks.

pvp nuff said.

engys....no need for them. sci can heal way better and has subnuke

oh and hive elite to subnuke the sheild distro off queen