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Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 948
A carrier with a Commander Tactical is going to suffer immensely seriously what is up with that? I liked that the Recluse is Universal Commander. they could have at least brought that over with this.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 251
# 2
01-23-2013, 03:15 PM
Mind explaining why you believe the carrier will suffer with a Commander Tactical?

Just saying it will suffer immensely doesn't explain anything
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 948
# 3
01-23-2013, 03:17 PM
Because Tacticals are mostly for offensive abilities. this just rips the defensive out of carriers and just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. which sucks considering I have a Jemhadar attack ship on my main.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 251
# 4
01-23-2013, 03:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainbmoney View Post
Because Tacticals are mostly for offensive abilities. this just rips the defensive out of carriers and just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. which sucks considering I have a Jemhadar attack ship on my main.
I say it has enough defense to get by.

Besides, you were warned that this carrier will be the most Tactical carrier of the bunch
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 272
# 5 Gotta agree
01-23-2013, 03:25 PM
It's pretty underwhelming. Six degrees of turn makes those DHC about as viable as the Galaxy X.

It could at least have a polaron lance weapon.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 251
# 6
01-23-2013, 03:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocp001 View Post
It's pretty underwhelming. Six degrees of turn makes those DHC about as viable as the Galaxy X.

It could at least have a polaron lance weapon.
The stats didn't say it could use DHC's, but even if it could, beams are more appropriate. Why else would it have subsystem targeting.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 273
# 7
01-23-2013, 03:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cliftona91 View Post
The stats didn't say it could use DHC's, but even if it could, beams are more appropriate. Why else would it have subsystem targeting.
SubSystem Targetting in itself isn't a reason, its just an addition.

That said, I still believe the Kar'Fi is the best Carrier out there (since all Escort Carriers are, are basically Escorts with Hanger Bays) and this Jemmy Dreadnought doesn't change that for me, despite its impressive boff and console layout, I don't think the Turn Rate is viable for such a ship combination to be effective in its intended role (but without testing, I cannot say that for sure).
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 272
# 8
01-23-2013, 04:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cliftona91 View Post
The stats didn't say it could use DHC's, but even if it could, beams are more appropriate. Why else would it have subsystem targeting.
Then I humbly submit you reread the stats. Looks like it's now seven degrees of turn.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 891
# 9
01-24-2013, 03:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocp001 View Post
It's pretty underwhelming. Six degrees of turn makes those DHC about as viable as the Galaxy X.

It could at least have a polaron lance weapon.
In PvP. In PvE I can keep a Recluse lined up with cannons most of the time, and that thing moves slower than this,
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,660
# 10
01-24-2013, 05:52 AM
Dread Bug...vs Vo'quv and Kar'Fi (not comparing the Mirror nor Fleet Vo'quv):

Hull
+3000
+10500

Shield Modifier
+0.15
-0.05

Crew
-500
+500

Weapons
+1 Fore

Devices
-1

Consoles
+2 Tac, +1 Eng, -2 Sci
+1 Tac, +2 Eng, -2 Sci

Turn Rate
+1
-1

Impulse Modifier
+0.02
+0.02

Inertia
???

Power
+10 Weapon
+5 Aux

Other
Has Subsystem Targeting like the Vo'quv. Only one of the three that can equip Bug pets if you've got a Bug. Kar'Fi has the PSG console. Dread Bug has the DCI console and can use the Heavy Bug's DCP console (which means the 2pc bonus if both are used).

Okay then, so how about those BOFF layouts?

Dread Bug: CMDR LT LCDR EN LT
Vo'quv: LCDR LCDR CMDR LT
Kar'Fi: LCDR LT LT CMDR EN

While it's not as simple as just a "count" of abilities, it obviously stands out how the Dread Bug compares to the other two in regard to Sci abilities. EN plus possible LT vs. CMDR LT/CMDR EN. You'd be looking at either comparing a CMDR slot to an EN or LT slot. Yeah, Sci is not the Dread Bug's thing. That's also reflected in having 2 fewer Sci consoles than either the Vo'quv or Kar'Fi.

It picks up that CMDR level ability over both of them (and that Tac'ness is reflected in the 4/3 weapons as well as the +2/+1 Tac consoles). Compared to the Vo'quv, it also has the additional LT Tac slot.

Like the Tac angle, the Dread Bug has +1 Eng console compared to the Vo'quv and +2 Eng consoles compared to the Kar'Fi. The option exists to use that LT Uni as another Eng slot over the Vo'quv, while even at base it has the LCDR level ability over the Kar'Fi (with the option of using that LT Uni still).

You can't think of the Dread Bug like you would the Vo'quv or the Kar'Fi. That change in Sci is...a big change. First off, there's no GW/PSW/VM. Then, there's no "3" of any Sci ability. CPB, ES, FBP, PO, TBR, SS. and TR are all limited to "1" if you were to take them.

Meanwhile, looking at the CMDR Tac - you're not looking at any abilities you couldn't take - just "2" and "3" of abilities you could. You gain access to APO2/3, and "3" for APB, APD, CRF, CSV, and DPB.

Compared to the Kar'Fi, the LCDR Eng slot gives you access to AB1 and EWP1 (as well as "2" and "3" for various other abilities).

Yep, it's basically a somewhat tanky "Escort" BOFF layout...on a ship with a turn of 6. Which is why, imho, there have been the comments about it being a PvE boat and a PvP failboat. Without the Sci goodies, that extra hull's not going to mean much as somebody chews through that extra hull in the blink of an eye. PvE on the other hand, I can see it being fun.

Heck, I'd still fly it in PvP if I ever picked it up - but I do flaky things like that. Sometimes it works - sometimes it doesn't. Heh, think about how much hull you could still have when hitting GDF at 50% or lower...it's already fun to do that in a Vo'qvu - can picture that with the two additional Tac consoles as well as an APO3 instead of an APO1, etc, etc, etc.


"Wheeeee, this is kind of fun. Oopsie...my bad."
Fleet Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer
Endless, Hazari Destroyer
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