Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 765
# 1 For the Jem'hadar QQ'ers
02-01-2013, 07:14 AM
I'm getting a litte tired about this topic, so lets made some points clear. This ship need a balance is right, but not as hard as all the QQ are screaming

I will quote one of the qq'ers post for make this easy:

Quote:
Jem'Hadar Attack Ship
1- Highest turn-rate of all escorts, excluding raiders.
2- Aside from Escort Carriers, the highest HP of all escorts.
3- Shield Rating of 1, while most other escorts tend to have around 0.9
4- Two universal boff slots
5- 5 tactical console slots
Benefits from Jem'Hadar Space Set

In other words, for an escort the ship has no flaws. Other ships at the very least tend to trade defensive stats for offense or turn rate etc. In this case... it's an OP ship and the whole community knows it.
The Jem'hadar attack ship is the only special ship that don't have any unique console/weapon/Ability (galor, d'kora, tholian orb, tholian recluse, temporal ships, etc...all of them have something "special"), so what can they add to the ship for make it interesting? stats.

1 - Yes, is right, defiant have 17 and jemmy have 20. But defiant have the cloacking ability, jem'hadar have no speciall ability. Maybe 18-19 is a good turn rate value for balance, 1 point of BASE TURN rate is a huge diference for and escort

2 - Irrelevant, we all know that escorts survialbly depends 100% on shield tanking and speed, a litle more of hull is totaly irrelevant, that won't make u "OP".

3 - Yes but other escort can (and should) stack 2 o 3 Field generator consoles, in the end the jem'hadar is the escort with less shield in the game.

4 - So? There are plenty of ships in this game with 1 or 2 Universal boffs, and 99% of the jemhadar captians use the same layout as the fleet patrol escort. I see no problem here.

5 - Defiant have 5 too (plus can use the cloack for an deadly alpha strike), and i don't see anybody crying about that.

And what about the wells? is better than any other sci ship in the game and i don't see the QQ Army talking about it.

There are more important issues with pvp balance, so please stop the flood in the balance topics so we can keep them clean as posible
John Sheridan@playhard88 - FED Tactical
Vin Naftero@playhard88 - FED Sciencie
K'tan@playhard88 - KDF Tactical
Argento@playhard88 - RRF Tactical (FED)

Last edited by playhard88; 02-01-2013 at 07:18 AM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 56
# 2
02-01-2013, 07:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by playhard88 View Post
2 - Irrelevant, we all know that escorts survialbly depends 100% on shield tanking and speed, a litle more of hull is totaly irrelevant, that won't make u "OP".

3 - Yes but other escort can (and should) stack 2 o 3 Field generator consoles, in the end the jem'hadar is the escort with less shield in the game.
Other escorts may stack 1 or two field generators and use two console slots. The JHAS stacks one or none and has the same amount of shield and uses the 4 eng slots for neutronium, rcs or special consoles. With more neutronium the hull does matter suddenly, cause it increases the hull points with its resistance.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,793
# 3
02-01-2013, 07:35 AM
Let me guess, your main is a JHAS?

The reason no one cries about the Defiant, is because it isn't disproportionately better than any other escort in the game.

Who cares about the extra Tac console when it has the squishy LT ENG boff seating compared to the JHAS.


And lol at the idea that one Sci console is a great handicap for the JHAS.

It has the most damage potential, best boff layout for an Escort, 5 Tac consoles, 4 Eng consoles, best turn rate of Escorts.

There are no drawbacks. There's a reason all premades run JHAS in their setups.


Cryptic, give my Defiant the Patrol Escort config and I'll be happy.


Click here and here if you are interested in learning more about PvP.
Career Officer
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 522
# 4
02-01-2013, 07:38 AM
You kind of get the impression that the Bug is suppose to be that much better than the rest... With the rarity/cost (chance to get from lockboxes significantly less than normal) and all.

Wouldn't mind a nerf, maybe some hull reduction and the ensign engineer turned into an ensign tac... (I can smell the tears already.)

Another way to nerf it would be to release more ships with NONE ****TY TURN RATES. If 4 or 6 ships that wheren't shuttles had degrees per second of +40 there would be a lot less QQ'ing.

Last edited by magniacapra; 02-01-2013 at 07:51 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,793
# 5
02-01-2013, 07:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by magniacapra View Post
You kind of get the impression that the Big is suppose to be that much better than the rest... With the rarity/cost (chance to get from lockboxes significantly less than normal) and all.

Wouldn't mind a nerf, maybe some hull reduction and the ensign engineer turned into an ensign tac... (I can smell the tears already.)

Another way to nerf it would be to release more ships with NONE ****TY TURN RATES. If 4 or 6 ships that wheren't shuttles had degrees per second of +40 there would be a lot less QQ'ing.
Maybe Cryptic should just buff the other Escorts instead.

For starters, give the Defiant a Patrol Escort config. That's the biggest thing that hurts it, IMO. It is more vulnerable to subnuke than the JHAS because of the lack of RSP. Yeah, I realize it's a team game and you can still be saved, but the JHAS is a bit more self-reliant and less of a drain on the team because of its RSP.


Click here and here if you are interested in learning more about PvP.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 361
# 6
02-01-2013, 07:38 AM
obviously you have the jem bug, but stop beeing a child, of course you know nothing about pvp, you talk about shields ? its not shields you want to hit, its the hull dmg that kills the enemie, the shield is just a barrier between that ( of course the jem bug wins with the shield modifier too ) --- the tactical escort has the cloaking device, yeah, the weak one, the console one, wich can be replaced with a field gen or a plating console, much better for pvp huh ? alpha strikes are gone, they suck. so lets not talk about special consoles coz we know most of them are useless.

lets resume this and compare the important numbers:

fleet tactical escort retrofit----------jem hadar attack ship
hull :33,000----------------34,500
shield mod: 0.9------------1.0
turn rate: 17---------------20

minor differences ? on the paper yes, but 1.5k more hull, with the player having the "starship structural integrity" skill maxed, which gives you approximatly +13% hull points to the ship, the jem hadar not only benefits from the standard hull points, it benefits too on ALL hull skills based on the hull points, the same happens with the shield modifier and the "shield system" skill, 0,1 doesnt seem that much, but it does, more than 1k shield cap with covariants and "shield systems" maxed, lets not talk about the turn rate, i think you had enough. not to remeber that the jem can use the jem consoles on 1 of its eng console slot ( loosing approximatly 6% hull resis, with 4 purple mk xii plating consoles ), the defiant dont benefit from its extra science console, the shield cap is too low to notice any big difference...

if you still die with the bug in an escort 1vs1 you are doing something wrong...
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 308
# 7
02-01-2013, 07:42 AM
heres a good out look a defiant is 20, while the jemmy to get all best gear can rack over 600$ so shouldnt it be the better ship?
-Spells

|| Open Door Policy ||
| Dues Ex Mechina |
Fleet Leader

Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 361
# 8
02-01-2013, 07:46 AM
it should be better and it is better, but people still thinks the bug is not op coz they are nooby pvpers and they still die in combat, the bug is op compared to its class cousins, so stop all this madness, and admit it, its op and you still die on it, but its expensive, and the ship is compensated for that. dont nerf it, things are this way...

buy an armitage or an advanced escort, they are superior to the jem in boff layouts on my opinion, the armitage with the lc eng and hangar and the advanced with lc sci and 5tac consoles, i would go for the fleet advanced escort, and use a fbp2, that should do it against the jem bug

Last edited by borgresearcher; 02-01-2013 at 07:52 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 765
# 9
02-01-2013, 07:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borgresearcher View Post
obviously you have the jem bug, but stop beeing a child, of course you know nothing about pvp, you talk about shields ? its not shields you want to hit, its the hull dmg that kills the enemie, the shield is just a barrier between that ( of course the jem bug wins with the shield modifier too ) ---.
Escorts survability is 100% about shield tanking and speed/manuvering, if u don't know that, probably is you who need to learn a little bit of PvP, "december 2012 registerd pro PvP player"


Quote:
Originally Posted by borgresearcher View Post
it should be better and it is better, but people still thinks the bug is not op coz they are nooby pvpers and they still die in combat, the bug is op compared to its class cousins, so stop all this madness, and admit it, its op and you still die on it
U will die in combat with or without a jem'hadar, with or without an OP ship, that is not the point of this topic, even a full tank/healer crusier can die. OP not means inmortal. If u can't kill a jem'hadar maybe is your fault
John Sheridan@playhard88 - FED Tactical
Vin Naftero@playhard88 - FED Sciencie
K'tan@playhard88 - KDF Tactical
Argento@playhard88 - RRF Tactical (FED)
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 844
# 10
02-01-2013, 08:04 AM
I don't mind the JHAS being superior to everything just don't decloak on one

But now with all these new consoles and dominion additions I do worry for the balance of the game
----=====This is my opinion you don't have to listen and no one else has to read them these "OPINIONS" are based on my exploits and my learning other people will have their opinions and that's fine just don't knock my way of doing things thanks=====----
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