Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 233
I have noticed a specific pattern with Cryptic regarding new ships that I find somewhat disturbing.

Whenever a new ship is released via lockbox or the Z Store, the stats of that vessel are horrifically overpowered in order to make the vessel desirable. However a couple of months later, Cryptic preform a stealth nerf of the class which is rarely included in the patch notes and is only noticed by the player flying the ship, a few examples spring to mind...

- Atrox Carrier
- Akira Carrier
- Galaxy Retrofit...

What I have to ask is, why does Cryptic do this? I am sure that its "buyer's beware" in the US but in the UK, there are trade laws that prevent false advertising and misleading products. So why have Cryptic been allowed to get away with this for so long, especially if it involves the use of a real money to obtain zen?

I honestly thought, this kind of false advertising is illegal in most countries.

This is not a flame... just a question? Doesn't this leave Cryptic liable to be sued on grounds of false advertising. I know it does under EU trade laws, even if they are an American based company.

Last edited by warbird001; 02-05-2013 at 07:59 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 518
# 2
02-05-2013, 08:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by warbird001 View Post
Whenever a new ship is released via lockbox or the Z Store, the stats of that vessel are horrifically overpowered in order to make the vessel desirable. However a couple of months later, Cryptic preform a stealth nurf of the class which is rarely included in the patch notes and is only noticed by the player flying the ship
Well first off I'd say they're protected by the whole "Cryptic has the right to change anything at any time" part of the ToS.

It's not really false advertising either. You got exactly what they said you were going to get when you bought it. Even if the stats change it's still the same ship, being sold for the same price.

I doubt that they're nerfing them for any nefarious purpose. They simply have nothing to gain by doing so. It's not like they nerf the Atrox and then offer a upgrade kit for it that costs Zen to buy.

Last edited by cptvanor; 02-05-2013 at 08:03 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 233
# 3
02-05-2013, 08:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cptvanor View Post
Well first off I'd say they're protected by the whole "Cryptic has the right to change anything at any time" part of the ToS.

I doubt that they're nerfing them for any nefarious purpose. They simply have nothing to gain by doing so. It's not like they nerf the Atrox and then offer a upgrade kit for it that costs Zen to buy.
No but one could argue that they are nerfing ships when they stop generating maximum income for Cryptic, once most people have bought the ship, they won't be generating maximum income from that ship anymore so they reduce it down again. Its rather underhanded, I think.

Plus if they have nothing to hide, why "stealth nerfs" and not including them in the patch notes?
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 518
# 4
02-05-2013, 08:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by warbird001 View Post
they won't be generating maximum income from that ship anymore so they reduce it down again.
And what exactly do you think they gain by doing so? If you believe this is some sort of underhanded deal, then they must be gaining something out of it. So what exactly are they getting out of the deal?

Nerfing the ships isn't going to increase or decrease their profits. So what exactly is it you think they gain by doing so?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,566
# 5
02-05-2013, 08:37 AM
To be honest I have not seen any "systematic downgrading" the OP referrs to .
There are the initial adjustments (done in the first 3 or so weeks after the release) -- but that's come to be expected unfortunetly , as Cryptic QA is a ... , yeah .

However if they were doing this on purpose ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cptvanor View Post
I doubt that they're nerfing them for any nefarious purpose. They simply have nothing to gain by doing so. It's not like they nerf the Atrox and then offer a upgrade kit for it that costs Zen to buy.
Actually all the Fleet Ships could qualify as an "upgrade kit" ... -- and guess what , one that you (or someone else) has to use Zen to buy .

Quote:
Originally Posted by cptvanor View Post
And what exactly do you think they gain by doing so? If you believe this is some sort of underhanded deal, then they must be gaining something out of it. So what exactly are they getting out of the deal?
If the were doing this , they'd be playing on the simple notion that many players share : "I need a good T5 ship" , which to many translates to "I have to get the next best thing " .
It's unfortunate , but knowing how many "retired" Galors and Marauder's ppl own (but don't play with anymore) -- well , the latter notion certainly exists .

Quote:
Originally Posted by cptvanor View Post
I'm sorry are you a lawyer? If so they perhaps you can make this claim, otherwise you really can't say if it's fraud or not, not by any sort of legal definition.
Which is why it is pointless to seek assurance of the legality or illegality of something in the game on the game's forums .
You will get neither expert advice , nor unbiased opinions .
If you have money to burn and evidence to back up your claims , go consult a lawyer . Consulting does not mean suing . It just often means torched money's .

Quote:
Originally Posted by warbird001 View Post
Of course, a warning outside of the TOS would be nice. Something on the description of the ship itself saying "this project is subject to change" but I guess you would argue you don't have to even do that.
Take a look at the last line in the promotional article :

http://sto.perfectworld.com/blog/?p=809331

Cryptic are more careful then they used to be .
But then again it could be argued that you are not obligated to read the commercial to buy on the Z-store .
STO will be out of Beta in another 2-4 years ???
... you know after another 3 story arc remasters, crafting revamp, skills revamp, PVP upgrade ...
*note : the 2-4 year guesstimate came out of comparing Cryptic's Dev speed and that of a snail . Sadly the snail won .

Last edited by aelfwin1; 02-05-2013 at 08:55 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 518
# 6
02-05-2013, 08:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aelfwin1 View Post
Actually all the Fleet Ships could qualify as an "upgrade kit" ... -- and guess what , one that you (or someone else) has to use Zen to buy .
Sure, but there's no Fleet Atrox. My point is that if they were nerfing ships like the Atrox, or Odyssey and then offering a retrofit for those ships in the c-store then perhaps there's a point to the OP's drivel.
Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 9
# 7
02-05-2013, 08:03 AM
Well most of the gaming world knows that Cryptic and PWE are kinda shady when it comes to Microtransactions.

I have always been buyer beware with stuff they sell, and everyone else should be too.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 233
# 8
02-05-2013, 08:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlee9569 View Post
Well most of the gaming world knows that Cryptic and PWE are kinda shady when it comes to Microtransactions.

I have always been buyer beware with stuff they sell, and everyone else should be too.
True but I doubt their TOS allows them to get away with out and out fraud which this is kinda close to, to be honest. They shouldn't be allowed to get away with these actions in the first place.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,808
# 9
02-11-2013, 11:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlee9569 View Post
Well most of the gaming world knows that Cryptic and PWE are kinda shady when it comes to Microtransactions.

I have always been buyer beware with stuff they sell, and everyone else should be too.
^^^
In the context were talking about this can be said of ANY MMO developer. there's not one MMO on ther market today that hasn't had MT items nerfed or adjusted in some way. It's just one aspect of the MMO genre in general.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=91861979000&dateline=  1340755546
PWE Drone says, "Your STO community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 10
02-05-2013, 08:05 AM
1) Laws regarding digital goods, especially ones in video games, are hideously vague, and there is next to zero precedent in regards to how said laws should be applied, if there is even standing for a person/group to bring legal action (which is again another grey area).

2) So long as Cryptic changes the descriptors in their marketplace to coincide with any changes made to a physical product, it's not false advertising.

3) EULA more than likely contains a "subject to change" clause.

4) They don't want things to challenge Lobi and Lockbox items so a few stupid people will expend absurd amounts of money to get their hands on "the bestest stuffs".
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