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Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 37
We are all aware of a marginal position of an engineer captain in STO at the moment, but looking at PvP, especially premade, it makes me think if there is any need at all for an engineer? Even the best of the best can't heal as much as best science captains, not to talk about doing damage.

Am I missing something maybe?
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,568
# 2
02-09-2013, 08:41 AM
From my experiences it depends on the team make up.

Some times you just need to have an Engineer to be able to survive as a healer when a Sci or Tac can't do it.

Though of course it's rare to run into situations like that.
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 367
# 3
02-09-2013, 09:35 AM
sci/sci perhaps. Ever thought about putting eng in more eng-biased sci ship like Nebula, D'Kyr or one of Vestas? You trade scattering field for MW and RSF while getting all the good sci HoTs and enough place for most importand eng buff/healing abilities.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,568
# 4
02-09-2013, 10:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zarathos1978 View Post
sci/sci perhaps. Ever thought about putting eng in more eng-biased sci ship like Nebula, D'Kyr or one of Vestas? You trade scattering field for MW and RSF while getting all the good sci HoTs and enough place for most importand eng buff/healing abilities.
I've done that. It can work. Though I'm afraid for me personally, I don't enjoy doing healing in STO.
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 17,920
# 5
02-09-2013, 10:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctos1717 View Post
Even the best of the best can't heal as much as best science captains
Eng: Miracle Worker, Rotate Shield Frequency, Nadion Inversion, EPS Power, Engineering Fleet

Sci: Subnucleonic Beam, Photonic Fleet, Scattering Field, Sensor Scan, Science Fleet

Those are the five abilities that separate a Sci Captain and an Eng Captain. The Sci doesn't have any additional healing there.

There's SNB which could reduce the amount of healing needed by stripping buffs off a target. There's Scattering which can reduce the amount of healing needed by reducing energy weapon damage to the hull of those around you. There's Sci Fleet which can reduce the amount of healing needed by reducing damage to shields while also reducing potential drain to shields and power levels. It also boosts shield healing. DOFF'd Scan could also reduce the amount of healing needed by reducing the amount of damage being done. Even Photonic could technically reduce damage by acting as chaff and eating some non-targeted incoming damage.

But there's not actually any heals.
And you're going to have other Sci's for Evil Bill Nye goodies.

The Eng, well, from a team perspective - probably start off with Eng Fleet. Which can actually increase passive healing because of the boost to hull repair (as well as active healing), provides the smallish boost to all power levels which can provide that smallish increase to shield damage reduction and regen, and it also provides additional hull damage resist. Then there's using EPS Power to boost power on yourself or a single ally - which can do more of what the WCP buff from Eng Fleet did. And then... well, nope - that's it. MW, RSF, and NI are just things that may keep you alive longer so you can do your job longer.

There's more "team healing" out of an Engineer than a Sci. The Sci is just more team friendly overall. But again, you're likely to have another Sci or two - you're not likely to have the Eng there as anything other than a Healer - which gets into that overall discussion of Engineers and their five innates vs. the five for Tac or Sci.

As web said though, depending on the team setup - it may or may not be covered anyway. Lots of folks have posted about the 3 Tac/2 Sci or 2 Tac/3 Sci teams - with crosshealing, etc, etc, etc. One could say that an Eng healer is like lockbox, eh? Sometimes you may bring them, and simply not need them - wishing you had brought something else. Sometimes you may not bring them, and find you need them - wishing you had brought them instead of something else. The various discussions over the years should give an idea of what the percentage rates for either of those scenarios is...

As zara said, it's about the ship. Cmdr Eng and LCdr Sci - so that you can get the best heals from both. So you're going to hear about the Recluse and the Science Odyssey. From time to time, you'll see folks arguing those two in OPvP. Heck, there's even folks that have brought up the Ambassador and what a Fleet version might be able to do since it's got the Cmdr Eng and LCdr Sci. The Fleet Nebula...has Cmdr Sci and LCdr Eng - so you've got a non-heal Cmdr Sci ability while missing out on the Cmdr Eng abilities. Course, if the team can work around that - then it opens to the door to several more ships with that kind of layout that could work as more offensive healers - giving up that Cmdr Eng heal for some Cmdr Sci EVIL...muahahahaha.

But don't mind me in the least...I don't participate in high level PvP and neither of my Engineers are healers.
Willard the Rat, Klingon, Sci (60), U.S.S. Tong Vey, Geneva Command Battlecruiser (FT6), Inner Circle
Meena, Ferasan, Tac (58), I.K.S. vagh SuD bas, B'rel Retrofit Bird-of-Prey (T5U), Ho'ragh
[WIP] No-Fleet, T5U B'rel Retrofit Build
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,568
# 6
02-09-2013, 11:18 AM
Also virus, you left out Carriers as the Atrox and the Vor'quv has Cmd Sci and LtC Engi..
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 17,920
# 7
02-09-2013, 11:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by webdeath View Post
Also virus, you left out Carriers as the Atrox and the Vor'quv has Cmd Sci and LtC Engi..
Yep, left those out. The Mirror Vo'Quv is pretty interesting for that with the LCdr Tac, LCdr Eng, Lt Eng, and Cmdr Sci instead of the LCdr Tac, LCdr Eng, Cmdr Sci, Lt Sci of the regular Vo'Quv.

Shame that the Bortasqu' doesn't have the console layouts to support what you could do with the BOFF layouts.
Willard the Rat, Klingon, Sci (60), U.S.S. Tong Vey, Geneva Command Battlecruiser (FT6), Inner Circle
Meena, Ferasan, Tac (58), I.K.S. vagh SuD bas, B'rel Retrofit Bird-of-Prey (T5U), Ho'ragh
[WIP] No-Fleet, T5U B'rel Retrofit Build
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,289
# 8
02-09-2013, 02:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Yep, left those out. The Mirror Vo'Quv is pretty interesting for that with the LCdr Tac, LCdr Eng, Lt Eng, and Cmdr Sci instead of the LCdr Tac, LCdr Eng, Cmdr Sci, Lt Sci of the regular Vo'Quv.

Shame that the Bortasqu' doesn't have the console layouts to support what you could do with the BOFF layouts.
I have been able to do pretty good with a Command Bortasqu using Lt Cmdr universal as sci for healing. TSS3 is still strong when powered by high aux even though it only has 2 sci consoles. Also it can offer much more support dps then the sci oddy can at the same time.

There is also the much overlooked Fleet corsair which does get Cmdr Eng and Lt Cmdr Sci, 4 sci consoles, and hangar.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 17,920
# 9
02-09-2013, 02:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc8219 View Post
There is also the much overlooked Fleet corsair which does get Cmdr Eng and Lt Cmdr Sci, 4 sci consoles, and hangar.
I've seen a few folks flying those in Ker'rat and they've done pretty well.
Willard the Rat, Klingon, Sci (60), U.S.S. Tong Vey, Geneva Command Battlecruiser (FT6), Inner Circle
Meena, Ferasan, Tac (58), I.K.S. vagh SuD bas, B'rel Retrofit Bird-of-Prey (T5U), Ho'ragh
[WIP] No-Fleet, T5U B'rel Retrofit Build
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 570
# 10
02-09-2013, 01:31 PM
Eng: Miracle Worker, Rotate Shield Frequency, Nadion Inversion, EPS Power, Engineering Fleet

Sci: Subnucleonic Beam, Photonic Fleet, Scattering Field, Sensor Scan, Science Fleet

Those are the five abilities that separate a Sci Captain and an Eng Captain. The Sci doesn't have any additional healing there.

There's SNB which could reduce the amount of healing needed by stripping buffs off a target. There's Scattering which can reduce the amount of healing needed by reducing energy weapon damage to the hull of those around you. There's Sci Fleet which can reduce the amount of healing needed by reducing damage to shields while also reducing potential drain to shields and power levels. It also boosts shield healing. DOFF'd Scan could also reduce the amount of healing needed by reducing the amount of damage being done. Even Photonic could technically reduce damage by acting as chaff and eating some non-targeted incoming damage.

But there's not actually any heals.
And you're going to have other Sci's for Evil Bill Nye goodies.

The Eng, well, from a team perspective - probably start off with Eng Fleet. Which can actually increase passive healing because of the boost to hull repair (as well as active healing), provides the smallish boost to all power levels which can provide that smallish increase to shield damage reduction and regen, and it also provides additional hull damage resist. Then there's using EPS Power to boost power on yourself or a single ally - which can do more of what the WCP buff from Eng Fleet did. And then... well, nope - that's it. MW, RSF, and NI are just things that may keep you alive longer so you can do your job longer.

There's more "team healing" out of an Engineer than a Sci. The Sci is just more team friendly overall. But again, you're likely to have another Sci or two - you're not likely to have the Eng there as anything other than a Healer - which gets into that overall discussion of Engineers and their five innates vs. the five for Tac or Sci.

As web said though, depending on the team setup - it may or may not be covered anyway. Lots of folks have posted about the 3 Tac/2 Sci or 2 Tac/3 Sci teams - with crosshealing, etc, etc, etc. One could say that an Eng healer is like lockbox, eh? Sometimes you may bring them, and simply not need them - wishing you had brought something else. Sometimes you may not bring them, and find you need them - wishing you had brought them instead of something else. The various discussions over the years should give an idea of what the percentage rates for either of those scenarios is...

As zara said, it's about the ship. Cmdr Eng and LCdr Sci - so that you can get the best heals from both. So you're going to hear about the Recluse and the Science Odyssey. From time to time, you'll see folks arguing those two in OPvP. Heck, there's even folks that have brought up the Ambassador and what a Fleet version might be able to do since it's got the Cmdr Eng and LCdr Sci. The Fleet Nebula...has Cmdr Sci and LCdr Eng - so you've got a non-heal Cmdr Sci ability while missing out on the Cmdr Eng abilities. Course, if the team can work around that - then it opens to the door to several more ships with that kind of layout that could work as more offensive healers - giving up that Cmdr Eng heal for some Cmdr Sci EVIL...muahahahaha.

But don't mind me in the least...I don't participate in high level PvP and neither of my Engineers are healers.
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so sci dmg resistance doesn't count as useful for defence ?

Last edited by rakija879; 02-09-2013 at 01:43 PM.
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