Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
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Most of you guys likely already know all this so really this isn't for you. Someone was asking and it's easy to just post it here.

This is for a system of hits and crits that Bort at least has said is still current. So if some of the underlying rules have changed, OF COURSE this changes as well. What follows is really a way to see what it is you may want to have as a mod on your weps.

Acc as a stat is meaningless. Acc ONLY has meaning when you are comparing it to Def. There is no other time that Acc has any meaning. There are very few ways to gain Acc in the game. There's the trait, and there's a total of +30% on weps. There are some gear pieces in the game as well that add a small bit of Acc.

You can never stack enough Acc to overcome any ships Def. Just won't happen. You will always have less Acc. So once we start to compare Acc to Def we can see that we will always be missing with some of our attacks.

Hmm. Okay now here's thought time. How and when do I want to attack? Is autofire really an option? Furthermore, is it worthwhile to attack at any time other than when I FULLY expect to defeat my opponents hull? Well almost all of the time those answers will be no. Autofire will likely BENEFIT my target by proccing some passive heal or other ability. Resistances are FAR to high for lower level attacks to overcome.

Okay but suppose I have some nice weapon proc I like to keep on? Well you DON'T need stunning Acc to get that applied. It WILL get on there. Don't fret.

Fine. So what do? Well if Acc compares to Def unfavorably, just remove Def. There's more than one way to do this. It is very simple to degrade a targets Def to the point that Acc is now >Def and your hit rate is 100% And it doesn't matter that there's some time between opportunities to do that as gee whiz, your best attacks have cooldowns anyways and we already decided....that we NEED to use our best attacks.

Okay so I don't need Acc. What about Crit H and D? That's a little different. H will convert hits into crits, and D will add more damge to each crit. So it depends on where you happen to be at any point in time on the Crit H/D curve. Currently there's more sources for Crit H off of weapons than there are for Crit D. So you may want to reserve your weps for the Crit D, as you can add the Crit H elsewhere.

But, just looking at a simple sample, to show how it works. We're going to work on 100 hits. Shots that have already landed. And if we've removed Def from our target, all our shots land. So this isn't impossible. Lets say your base damage is 100. Lets say that the crit bonus is 50% of base. So a crit does 150 damage, or 50 points extra. Keep in mind, all we need to consider is the incremental damage, the hit itself has already occurred. Let's say our crit rate is 1%. Okay I can add 1% H or I can add 10% D. 1% H would add one more crit for 50 extra damage. 10% D would add 10 damage to the crit that's already on the board. Okay so I go for H. You can see that you would go for H all the way up to 5% or 5 crits.

At that point no matter what I add, I add the same amount of damage. But if I add D I get the same amount of damage in fewer hits, so you go with D.

Okay now what. I've changed my crit severity to 60. So if I add another 1% H I add 60 damage, and if I add 10% D I add only 50 damage so I choose H.

Now at 6% I'm back at parity so I go with D. And so on.

So acc is useless. Crit H and Crit D are very useful, you just need to know where you stand on the curve to decide what one you need to add next, and realize that by DOING that, you change where you stand.

CAVEAT: Pinned targets seem to get CRIT far more often than they should be. This is only from observations. I don't have 1000 test kills yet. Just saying that if Crit H is already at 50% due to some glitch in acc/def/crit (Nah...COULDN"T BE!) you can see how handy D would be.

Cheers and happy flying!
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 2
02-14-2013, 07:50 AM
The thing is, accuracy isn't an all-or-nothing prospect. Yes, without some kind of snare you're generally always going to have lower accuracy than an opponent's defense, but that only means you'll miss more; it doesn't mean you'll miss all the time. [Acc] is thus desirable because it allows you to deal more damage during times in an opponent's buff cycle where it'd otherwise be difficult. This forces him to use moar heals/resists prematurely.

It's never not a useful stat, really.

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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,390
# 3
02-14-2013, 08:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmerless View Post
The thing is, accuracy isn't an all-or-nothing prospect. Yes, without some kind of snare you're generally always going to have lower accuracy than an opponent's defense, but that only means you'll miss more; it doesn't mean you'll miss all the time. [Acc] is thus desirable because it allows you to deal more damage during times in an opponent's buff cycle where it'd otherwise be difficult. This forces him to use moar heals/resists prematurely.

It's never not a useful stat, really.

I agree with Shimmer.

This is also not a binary question, if you or your team packs enough movement limiters (therefore defense limiters) you may be able to risk dropping your acc some - but that also limits you to making your attacks when your opponent is completely controlled.

Conversely if you're team does not have a lot of movement control, you're going to want higher ACC.

I tend to err on the higher acc side of things, although I've been using ACCx2 CrtHx1 for a while now and keeping an eye on my hit percentages in ACT.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
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# 4
02-14-2013, 08:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
I agree with Shimmer.

This is also not a binary question, if you or your team packs enough movement limiters (therefore defense limiters) you may be able to risk dropping your acc some - but that also limits you to making your attacks when your opponent is completely controlled.

Conversely if you're team does not have a lot of movement control, you're going to want higher ACC.

I tend to err on the higher acc side of things, although I've been using ACCx2 CrtHx1 for a while now and keeping an eye on my hit percentages in ACT.
And you'd be wrong. Maybe you'd better just get some snares. So you can err on the higher side if you like. Its still erring.

And the bit about limiting attacks to when your target is controlled. Okay. So you consider a high def highly mobile full defended target a GOOD target. Because that's what you're saying. You may want to take a moment and back off of this a bit.

Take your time!!
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
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# 5
02-14-2013, 08:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thissler View Post
And you'd be wrong. Maybe you'd better just get some snares.

Maybe you should test your theory out in an Arena scenario against very heavily defended targets, and not Ker'rat where you can just hide and wait for opportune moments.



Quote:
Originally Posted by thissler View Post
And the bit about limiting attacks to when your target is controlled. Okay. So you consider a high def highly mobile full defended target a GOOD target. Because that's what you're saying. You may want to take a moment and back off of this a bit.
No, I'm saying that waiting for the completely controlled, ideal low defense target is not always an option in a 5v5 arena scenario where you have to actually worry about 4 other players helping keep a target alive.




Quote:
Originally Posted by thissler View Post
Take your time!!
That's exactly the point. You can't always "take your time" in an arena scenario. Not all us can spend X amount of time cloaked waiting for the perfect kill shot.

ACC helps in situations where you need to brute force kill your target whether they are running some buffs or not.

Of course I'm not advocating going after targets when they have APO/EM/TT/RSP up (although can brute force through these as well).
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# 6
02-14-2013, 08:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thissler View Post
CAVEAT: Pinned targets seem to get CRIT far more often than they should be. This is only from observations. I don't have 1000 test kills yet. Just saying that if Crit H is already at 50% due to some glitch in acc/def/crit (Nah...COULDN"T BE!) you can see how handy D would be.
Excess acc converts to crit chance, I believe. So if your target is immobilized, it may be the same thing as H, or maybe even better.

I should add that I believe that to be true, but I'm not very sure of it.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,058
# 7
02-14-2013, 08:24 AM
From STOWIKI and highlighted for relevance:

This skill improves your Starship's Accuracy value. The higher your Accuracy, the more often you will hit a target. The target's Defense value can counter Accuracy. If your Accuracy exceeds a target's Defense, you cannot miss with an attack on that target. Furthermore, the amount by which your accuracy value exceeds the target's defense rating, is converted into additional Critical Hit chance and Critical Hit Severity ensuring that no points in this skill can be 'wasted' by exceeding the percieved 'hit cap'.

It is not confirmed if Starship Targeting Systems and Starship Maneuvers increase proportionally to each other (i.e. That 1 increment of Starship Maneuvers is equal and inverse to 1 increment of Starship Targeting Systems).

Due to the mechanic of converting 'overkill' in this skill into potential additional damage to the target, it is impossible to waste points in this ability, every point spent will increase damage dealt.

This skill certainly gives greater value in PvP than in PvE, but it is useful in all space combat situations.

This ability stacks with all other factors which affect Hit Chance and (when hit chance is over 100%) Critical Hit chance and damage, therefore, in a high crit build, maxing this skill can add a significant amount of damage dealt, especially against targets whom have not heavily invested in their defense.

I think you are assuming that because the ACC < DEF = 0 DMG, which is clearly not correct. All you will lose with ACC < DEF is the convertion to Crit H and Crit D.

A shot that misses completely does zero DMG. Think back to when FAW had 100% accuracy and the mess it made of anyone, back then it was Beamscorts online. There's a good reason [ACC]x3 weapons are the most expensive.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,292
# 8
02-14-2013, 08:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmerless View Post
The thing is, accuracy isn't an all-or-nothing prospect. Yes, without some kind of snare you're generally always going to have lower accuracy than an opponent's defense, but that only means you'll miss more; it doesn't mean you'll miss all the time. [Acc] is thus desirable because it allows you to deal more damage during times in an opponent's buff cycle where it'd otherwise be difficult. This forces him to use moar heals/resists prematurely.

It's never not a useful stat, really.
It is an all or nothing prospect. I'm not sure why you don't see that. Really read it over again.

Autofire or weak fire is useless and doesn't force anything. I never said you would miss all the time. I just said it was useless. And it is. All that damage will just get healed. Happens all the time and there's even an Obviousland Thread on that very subject. Far be it from me to go against that!

And really read the entire post. You'll add far more damage when you need to with 100% certainty by NOT stacking Acc. And as you can in NO WAY compare Acc to a stat that you DO NOT KNOW the value of, namely Def, how exactly are you basing your argument? And really, you can only miss 75%. And most people are above that anyway. Go hit the charts. See how many hits 30% could possibly give you vs the given ranges of defense. What you will find is that targets that you wouldn't even TRY to alpha already have you far enough upside down that you won't be doing much better than a 25% hit rate anyway, and a target that you would snare is a target that deserves a hugely inflated Crit Death.

And our goal is to destroy the enemy, not give him scratches. Honest. Beam to my ready room and we'll take turns trading Alphas.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 688
# 9
02-14-2013, 08:04 AM
I find acc trait usefully on the burst damage weapons, I categorize these weapons as the main go to for a large hit, for example on a escort, DHC and turrets I like CritH and CritD, but if i running a torp I want Acc, or if I am running a DBB for BOL I want Acc, I want maximize those weapons to hit the majority of the time when I am going for the huge hit. Acc the last time I checked, if its higher than the def of the target gets transferred over to CritH.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,292
# 10
02-14-2013, 08:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolverine595959 View Post
I find acc trait usefully on the burst damage weapons, I categorize these weapons as the main go to for a large hit, for example on a escort, DHC and turrets I like CritH and CritD, but if i running a torp I want Acc, or if I am running a DBB for BOL I want Acc, I want maximize those weapons to hit the majority of the time when I am going for the huge hit. Acc the last time I checked, if its higher than the def of the target gets transferred over to CritH.
Keep checking. And keep reading. Thats covered in there. And you may want to consider that the Acc stat for BO3 happens to be busted. Just saying.

And really, I have hours of tape saying I got this knocked, in exactly the way I say I do.

What do you have?
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