Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 432
# 1 Logic trap
02-25-2013, 06:34 PM
Ok, so tricobolt mines where doing damage so massive they had to be nerfed before even proper testing could be done to realized how cross linked things had become. Basically, if I understand, they allowed people with a certain setup to kill someone without a equally absurd counter. (A setup ignoring all else just for that). They could do this on a 60 second timer. Not only did this have to be stopped, it had to be stopped right this second, and to hell with the consequences.

So I stopped repressing how bad PvP has been borked to realize something: HDC setups with tactical captains have been doing enough damage to burn through 24K+ shields and 80-90% of 50K hull in under one second, in one volley. Assuming the first volly didn't work? There are at worst another three to four on the way before the first ability that allows it expires. This can be done on a 30-90 second timer.

This has been going on for more then a year.

--------

If one scenario merits a nerf, why does the other not?
Lieutenant
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 94
# 2
02-25-2013, 06:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by resoundingenvoy View Post
Ok, so tricobolt mines where doing damage so massive they had to be nerfed before even proper testing could be done to realized how cross linked things had become. Basically, if I understand, they allowed people with a certain setup to kill someone without a equally absurd counter. (A setup ignoring all else just for that). They could do this on a 60 second timer. Not only did this have to be stopped, it had to be stopped right this second, and to hell with the consequences.

So I stopped repressing how bad PvP has been borked to realize something: HDC setups with tactical captains have been doing enough damage to burn through 24K+ shields and 80-90% of 50K hull in under one second, in one volley. Assuming the first volly didn't work? There are at worst another three to four on the way before the first ability that allows it expires. This can be done on a 30-90 second timer.

This has been going on for more then a year.

--------

If one scenario merits a nerf, why does the other not?

um...it was like this since launch. pvp here is a joke.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 343
# 3
02-25-2013, 08:41 PM
I guess too many "high and mighty" PvP'ers whined too loudly about the tricobalt mines because they were like medieval crossbows...it didn't take a ridiculously well-trained chap to score a lucky hit on a member of the nobility whom they couldn't otherwise kill with sword and shield and lance. The sort of PvP player who thinks they rule the game couldn't handle PvE players and players without mad setups or expensive gear being able to kill them. Funny, those top PvP'ers could shred a lot of my ships--not all--in a fair fight but conversely I never found tric spam to be that huge an issue.

Former/Cryptic Name: Captain_Hans_Langsdorff
Founding member, Special Service Squadron
"Fear God and Dread Nought." First Sea Lord, Adm. Jacky Fisher
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,624
# 4
02-25-2013, 09:05 PM
And it's because of the above posts and because of Cryptic's obsession with escorts that I refuse to PvP. It's broken. As soon as anything unseats one of the PvP nobility it gets nerfed.

Cryptic can run all the bootcamps they want. Let them run a hundred of them and give free prizes. I won't even consider participating until they fix it. If they do, though, the PvPers will probably cry so loud and long that it will get changed back to its current and pathetic broken form.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,587
# 5
02-25-2013, 09:19 PM
It wasn't JUST PvPers. How quickly folks always point fingers.

In PvE, people were using tric mines to one-shot gates and such, breaking the missions in a way.

Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,624
# 6
02-25-2013, 10:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimey2 View Post
It wasn't JUST PvPers. How quickly folks always point fingers.

In PvE, people were using tric mines to one-shot gates and such, breaking the missions in a way.
I'll bet you my spare JHAS that the gates didn't complain but the PvPers did...
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 842
# 7
02-26-2013, 04:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimey2 View Post
It wasn't JUST PvPers. How quickly folks always point fingers.

In PvE, people were using tric mines to one-shot gates and such, breaking the missions in a way.
oh baaawwwww, least it absolutely ensured the optional was won.
On the subject of Abramsverse stuff in STO: http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/07...l-rivera-part/
And more reasons against JJ Trek: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiQ9piVgtWM
And even more: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REOjxvQPQNQ
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,750
# 8
02-28-2013, 09:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimey2 View Post

In PvE, people were using tric mines to one-shot gates and such, breaking the missions in a way.
This is the real reason why Trics were nerfed. Can't have folks finishing an STF in 4 minutes after all! All it took was a good lucky crit and even tac cubes were one shotted, orso I hear. My own all torp/mine ship never did anything near that... although it DID tend to have highest DPS in the group, a very cool feat for a sci cap in a sci vessel.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 432
# 9
02-26-2013, 01:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dixa1 View Post
um...it was like this since launch. pvp here is a joke.
Yea, but I haven't been around sense launch, and they didn't try to mess with the TB stuff until recently. Unless I missed something the logic for doing one should apply to the other ...

Don't get me wrong, I may not be skipping happy with the way they deal with it, but that fact they took note of a problem and actually did something about it is cool to me.

--------

Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post
I'll bet you my spare JHAS that the gates didn't complain but the PvPers did...
Does that mean if a dev makes the gates say something negative about getting blown up, they get your spare JHAS?
Survivor of Remus
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 359
# 10
02-26-2013, 02:11 PM
At some point someone needs to take a look at the current hull/shield values, determine an upper limit to damage resistance (which has been done) and then determine an upper limit to damage output (not been done at all), then set hull and shield values that are meaningful in terms of damage resistance.

Honestly, at some point, I'd like to see a diminishing returns curve for weapons output that mirrors the one for damage resistance, and then set weapons at different points on the curve. A beam array, which is lower on the curve, will get more of a percentage boost from the tac consoles than DHCs, which are higher up. Give them all identical cycle time/ power drain behavior and you've gone a long way towards making the game's PvE and PvP play manageable and balanced.
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