Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 361
# 1 problem with engineers
02-26-2013, 08:13 AM
my brother is an awesome pvper, he killed some of the strongest guys i know with mirror ships, but now he is going to change his engineer for a tactical officer, and let me tell you why...

attack pattern alpha can give you more than 50%dmg for 30secs, almost all captain tactical skills give you damage increase, attack pattern alpha is op compared to rotate shield frequency, a lot... let's not talk about nadion inversion ( usefull only in 5% of the pvp's and 0% usefull on pve, even subnuke can be usefull on pve ) and the eps power transfer is nothing compared to any of the tactical/science skills, not saying to nerf tacticals, just boost engineering captain skills a little, they are weak, and some of them look useless on pvp and pve, miracle worker should have a boost too, apa gives you more than 50%dmg, turn rate boff, and the rest of fancy immunities too, while the miracle worker gives you something like 12k hull and 4k shield per face, its nothing...

nadion inversion should have an immunity to disables and holds
rotate shield frequency gives a good shield resis, but its not 50% to compensate apa
miracle worker could have a boost of 10% too

just an idea... you may find this stupid, but please, create an engineer and a tactical, both with the skills needed to max captain skills and compare the numbers...
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,320
# 2
02-26-2013, 09:34 AM
Engineers are not bad, they just tend to get out-shined by the other two more often due to their captain powers.

Now...

Rotate Shield Frequency is probably the best shield regen and resist boost in the game, bar-none. It's based on your current shield power, so if you use E-power to shields, Aux to Battery, or a battery, it can be a huge boost to resistance and regen.

EPS is always good, because of the large power boost and power transfer boost plus the fact that it can be given to someone.

Nadion...yeah, always the 'meh' of engineering captain powers. If it gave immunity to subsystem disable for the duration, that would go a long way in helping it be more useful.

Miracle Worker, it is meant to be the 'oh ****' button for an engineer, by restoring all your subsystems and giving the huge instant heal to shields and hull. It can't be SNBed off, because it's instant.

Now, one small thing that could help an engineer a lot would simply be to let Nadion and Miracle Worker be given to others. That alone would provide a tremendous boost to their usage, because while the powers aren't bad, they can only be used on the engineer, while engineers are meant to take a support role like that.

At the very least, the option to give it to others would open up some more possibilities in PvP.

Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 677
# 3
02-26-2013, 10:03 AM
The problem with Engineers is that they are simply not worth shooting at most of the time, or they can simply be ignored and kill the rest of the team.

They are supposed to be a Tank/Healer, and they can do the healer part equally well as a Sci or a Tac even in a healboat, but they just add a little bit more tank to themselves (RSF/Miracle etc)

But if thats all they add in PvP, its not enough. Engi's NEED to make a reason for people to shoot at them, and a good enough team can get past those nifty heals u can throw out and simply ignore you.

They also got quite some useless Captain abilities compared to a Sci and a Tac.

EPS isn't that great as it looks, and even as a team skill throwing it at your Escort team player it isnt great.

Nadion... well, ugh. What can i say. Even a dual beam overload setup doesnt make this ability right.

Engi fleet.. meh, worst of all fleet abilities imo. The hull resist buff is very mediocre and the other buff it gives... um.. 1,2 points to your power levels at most :O

Miracle worker... Um i guess its not bad but certainly looks better then it is. Its not great.

With that said, both APA/GDF and Subnuke/sensor scan make for Tac and Sci basically outperform an Engi in terms of teaming anyway because all those abilities are way more contributing to a team, RSF really isnt, and so are alot of other engi captain abilities.

Oh im sure Engi is still great if u wanna make a total zombie build im sure it will contribute to it.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 4
02-26-2013, 10:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkfader1988 View Post
The problem with Engineers is that they are simply not worth shooting at most of the time, or they can simply be ignored and kill the rest of the team.

They are supposed to be a Tank/Healer, and they can do the healer part equally well as a Sci or a Tac even in a healboat, but they just add a little bit more tank to themselves (RSF/Miracle etc)

But if thats all they add in PvP, its not enough. Engi's NEED to make a reason for people to shoot at them, and a good enough team can get past those nifty heals u can throw out and simply ignore you.

They also got quite some useless Captain abilities compared to a Sci and a Tac.

EPS isn't that great as it looks, and even as a team skill throwing it at your Escort team player it isnt great.

Nadion... well, ugh. What can i say. Even a dual beam overload setup doesnt make this ability right.

Engi fleet.. meh, worst of all fleet abilities imo. The hull resist buff is very mediocre and the other buff it gives... um.. 1,2 points to your power levels at most :O

Miracle worker... Um i guess its not bad but certainly looks better then it is. Its not great.

With that said, both APA/GDF and Subnuke/sensor scan make for Tac and Sci basically outperform an Engi in terms of teaming anyway because all those abilities are way more contributing to a team, RSF really isnt, and so are alot of other engi captain abilities.

Oh im sure Engi is still great if u wanna make a total zombie build im sure it will contribute to it.
I agree with the Pony.



Here's my short list of easy tweaks that I'd like to see:


1) MW & RSF become castable on others. (Healer role improvement)
2) MW gets a resistance component, similar to Aux to SIF. (Healer role improvement)


Here's my idea for a new mechanic:

1) Nadion or EPS are slightly re-written. They keep all of the available functionality they have no with no changes.
2) The adjusted power allows them to absorb X% of incoming damage from one Ally of choice for X amount of seconds - perhaps 15s to 30s. (Tanking role creation).

Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,912
# 5
02-26-2013, 11:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
2) The adjusted power allows them to absorb X% of incoming damage from one Ally of choice for X amount of seconds - perhaps 15s to 30s. (Tanking role creation).
That give people (yet another) reason NOT to shoot an engineer as its a waste of ammo...
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,441
# 6
02-26-2013, 11:41 AM
Ah the engineer... My first character was an Engineer in an Escort.. This was back before they created the concept of F2P.. and before EPS consoles became a thing of the past due to the introduction of a skill that provided that very same effect.

Nadion Inversion is a power I have been tooling with.. and it does work well with Beam Overloads, especially if your running multiple beams and Multiple Beam Overloads. Nothing says spike shot like 3 Beam overloads back to back and not diping below 100 Weapon power. Other wise, that's really all it is.. a novelty ability that, while useful, can be simulated better in other ways, especially thanks to Duty Officers. (I'm looking at you DEM DOFF)

Originally, EPS Power flow was a great effect. It was like candy to Escorts. Fueling their firepower and making them monsters.. Then they came out with the skill change... And that's when EPS became.. meh.. It's cute, but it doesn't provide the same effect it used to. It might be nice if it gave the same kind of bonus that Batteries gave when they are used.. A scaling bonus with a max of 5% to Damage, Shield Resist, Turn Rate/Speed, and Stealth Sight to the target under the effect of EPS Power flow. But then that might make it Overpowered. *Shrug*

Rotate Shield Frequency used to be a great effect if not Overpowered. I believe (Could be wrong here) It's shield regeneration and Resists were MUCH higher then they are now. I remember being able to use Rotate Shield Frequency and Tac Team in order to Foil some Alpha strikes. Lately how ever, with how shield damage and Shield Drain effects (and the newly introduced Disruptor Shield Resist Penalty) it's becoming harder and harder to keep your own shields up. (Not that it's a bad thing! Encourages Teaming!!)

Miracle Worker.... Yeah this one used to be overpowered.. Used to grant you a full 100% Heal to hull and shields. Then they tweeked it to work with Crew.. how ever since you Crew is nearly always dead they changed it to a flat amount based on your skills in Hull and Shield repair.. In bigger ships, it hardly heals much.. in smaller ships it almost feels like it did back in the day. (My Khyzon has been almost fully healed by Miracle Worker as of late) It's still an "Oh ****" button..but it's not as powerful as Reverse Shield Polarity 1 can be. I do also like it's an Engi team as well in some respects. Might be nice if this also gave a small Hull and shield Resist for say.. 5-15 Seconds.. But not necessary.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 7
02-26-2013, 11:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamkafei View Post
That give people (yet another) reason NOT to shoot an engineer as its a waste of ammo...

It still lets the Eng, the character best suited to absorbing damage, absorb punishment meant for someone else.

Anyway it's just an idea, if you have some ideas that could see the Eng be less ignorable as a target that doesn't give it Tac damage or Sci debuffs, please post it here.

Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,582
# 8
02-27-2013, 12:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by webdeath View Post
Lately how ever, with how shield damage and Shield Drain effects (and the newly introduced Disruptor Shield Resist Penalty) it's becoming harder and harder to keep your own shields up.
Sorry, this is off-topic, but what is the "Disruptor Shield Resist Penalty"? I thought the disruptor proc only affected hull. Did they change something?
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,738
# 9
02-28-2013, 04:17 AM
The problem i see to the cruisers is the lack of Dps

In addition to current powers add a bonus to energy weapon Dps for

Miracle worker +50% 30 seconds
nadon inversion beam +25% for 10 seconds
Double current power gain from emerengcy power to weapons II and III

cut the CD on fleet support to 3 minutes 2 ships no low hull requirement


The Enginners/cruisers just need more bite , especially newer players and there skills
Jellico....Engineer.....Stargazer KDF Tac
Saphire.. Science.....Ko'el Rom Kdf Tac
Leva........Tactical.....Mailu KDF Sci

JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,526
# 10
02-28-2013, 04:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jellico1 View Post
The problem i see to the cruisers is the lack of Dps

In addition to current powers add a bonus to energy weapon Dps for

Miracle worker +50% 30 seconds
nadon inversion beam +25% for 10 seconds
Double current power gain from emerengcy power to weapons II and III

cut the CD on fleet support to 3 minutes 2 ships no low hull requirement


The Enginners/cruisers just need more bite , especially newer players and there skills
Well I do like the idea of adding effects to the current engi skills... not sure I would get behind a Engi Alpha (+50% dmg on a heal seems a bit out to lunch)...

I would say take MW and make it a friendly cast... so you can use it as a back up oh my heal. (it used to work that way) Thinking about it some more I think it also used to cure Sub nuke... it would be nice if that was restored.

nadion I can see adding a dmg boost to... 25% might be a good idea... and why not just make it last the full 30S of nadion... its a 3min cool down anyway so I wouldn't find that crazy... I would also say perhaps give it a +10-15 weapon power to go with.

I would leave the Emergency power to skills alone... those aren't just engi skills... and if you give my Tac the option of putting Weapons 3 on a cruiser and running full shield and weapon power it would get ugly.

EPS transfer however.... I could live with a general buff to this skill... something that makes it worthwhile.... what if on top of what it does now... it provided a buff to each sub system...
Weapon --- +30 to Weapons training
Shields --- +30 Shield Subsystem
Engines --- +25% turn rate +10 current flight speed
Aux --- +30 Sci Resist skills

This wouldn't be an insane boost... it would give a nice boost to engi cruisers in turn and speed and some dmg.... it would also make a nice boost to healing if you use it on a friendly.... or a boost to a team dmg dealer. This could make engi more viable solo... and of more value to the team.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.

Last edited by antoniosalieri; 02-28-2013 at 04:33 AM.
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