Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 361
# 1 Warp Core ?
03-20-2013, 03:56 AM
few days ago i read something about a new type of gear, the warp core, and this night i couldnt sleep thinking about the effect this could make in the unbalanced and stupid pvp system, that is all about tacticals.

tacticals are op compared to other classes, the devs can't see this because they screwed up with other type of things, tactical team having the auto shield reroute, that causes all players to use tt in a viable pvp build, making fire on my mark a weak version of sensor scan, i wonder what if all people used 2 copies of science team, and the effect it would have on subnuke and sensor scan, all of tactical captain skills are capable of boosting every single damage type, from repulsors to feedback pulse, dual heavy cannons, torpedos, isometric charge, etc etc, and the only way engineers can boost their damage, is ... well, the only thing i can see here is sensor scan, but if this game were balanced, people should use science team as often as tactical team, and that would be an issue for science officer, more than it is right now, when tacticals started to do science's job better than scientists, what the devs did ? nerf science skills.

i am a science officer, in a vesta, using a plasma/transphasic torpedo boat build, and honestly, im just waiting for the cluster and feedbackpulse nerf, because they forgot that tacticals can boost mines and torpedoe's damage, by putting its mind power in the wires of the mine, causing that to explode harder, tacticals can do any job, they can zombie tank in a recluse, and they can spike dmg in bops, they can pvp better than sci ships because of apo, and they can tank better than engineers because of procs, and all their skills are usefull, i mean, very usefull compared to nadion inversion and eps power transfer or photonic fleet, engineering fleet is laughable compared to sci fleet and tac fleet as well,

why people dont choose cruisers ( the mother of the battle ships, the front line combat vessels ) instead of those little mosquitos called ... escorts ? used to escort vips ?

no, its not about the beam suckage, its about energy. yes, the warp core.

yesterday i downloaded star trek bridge commander, and ... wooowww ... that, yes is pvp,
during the battle you loose energy, you have to place yourself in the right place, torpedoes use energy as well, but not as much as beams, but they need more time to recharge, letting you to play a little more with your weapon layout, spike damage = less combat durability due to higher energy consumption, and the use of beams instead of dual heavy cannons, causing higher combat durability, due to less energy consumption, if there were warp cores in star trek online, making escorts with the worse warp core rate, science vessels with medium energy, and cruisers with the bigger warp cores, that would cause cruisers to last longer in battle, because their subsystems wouldnt loose as much energy as escort would, so cruisers would be viable again in pvp, as well as nadion inversion, and eps power transfer, and engineering consoles, making ships with more than 3 eng console slots usefull.

a spike strike will consume lots of energy, and high dps builds wouldn't last as much as cruisers, so any ship, will one way or another actually,,, end up, no more zombie tanking recluses, and no more alpha strikes each 30 seconds

for example a fleet star cruiser's with 100 weapons and 50 shields, past 1 minute of combat, the warp core looses 30 energy, those less 30 energy, you would have to compensate on weapons to have 95 weapons and 25 shields, or in shields to have 50 shields and 70 weapons, if the battle lasts too long, the escort, which is the one with more damage, should become out of energy if he doesnt kill the cruiser fast enough

people in pvp should start making new builds, with torpedos and beams, torpedos with few energy consumption, and beams with better arcs, in the case if your engines are our of energy

maco warp core for example
150 energy power
x+ weapon power
x+ shields power ( modified by epts, eps power transfer, maco shield )
x+engines power
x+aux power (these would be the ones you have on your skills)
7.5? power recharge per second ( electro plasma systems ) modified by engineering consoles, nadion inversion, marion, etc etc

khg warp core
less energy cap, but higher regeneration, causing weapon power to regenerate faster for example

subsystem disables shouldn't mess with warp cores, because the crew in the ship will fix the subsystem, just the way it is right now

about energy drain, the warp core should be capable of recharging all the power lost, the crew in the ship should be capable of fixing the warp core's ... leak ?


tell me if im wrong, but this may be the balance we need in the game
the site were i read this
http://www.gamersbook.com/scene/news...tive-producer/

and here is dstahl's post

[DSTAHL] With the constant flow of new ships coming out of the shipyards, our next major update to ships will be to incorporate warp core design into how a ship performs in combat and what types of power it can bring to a fight.
it's not the ship or the build, it's the atitude
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,971
# 2
03-20-2013, 04:18 AM
The Warp Core comments and discussions have been insanely vague though. They could mean anything.

Also, keep in mind it's a Stahl comment. A somewhat cynical manner to look at the comments by Stahl and Geko is the following:

Stahl - things you want to hear about that are never going to happen
Geko - things you do not want to hear about that are going to happen

I mean, think about that comment:

"With the constant flow of new ships coming out of the shipyards, our next major update to ships will be to incorporate warp core design into how a ship performs in combat and what types of power it can bring to a fight."

There's all sorts of speculation about what it means.

Will there be different sized Warp Cores? Is it a case of looking at perhaps Science having the standard warp core (1.0 modifier) while Escorts have smaller cores (<1.0 modifier) and Cruisers have larger cores (>1.0 modifier) sort of thing?

Will it be ship independent? Will there be Tac Cores, Eng Cores, and Sci Cores that you can use to customize the potential power levels you can have regardless of ship?

Will it be a combination?

And of course - will it be free crap cores and better cores available through Dil, Zen, Lobi? Is it just another P2W money grab?

I commented in one thread about it - wondering if Stahl and Geko had been playing EVE lately. With the mention of Warp Cores (Powergrid) and Computers (CPU) - as well as the mention of several other things - are we on the frontier of a PWE P2W EVElite version of STO?
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Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 361
# 3
03-20-2013, 08:00 AM
it could work, at least in my idea of it, the same as shields or engines, making part of sets like maco, khg, borg, aegis, normal or fleet, etc etc,and working together with crew numbers giving devs a chance to balance things without giving us a complete new list of nerfs for 2013

efficient warp core with more subsystem bonus, regenerative warp core with more power recharge, and something like a resillient version of a warp core, with resistance to power drains or something, modified differently by electro-plasma systems and efficiency captain skills, as well as the ship it is fitted in, the same way the turn rate and shield is modified by ship's rates

and yes, escorts with less warp core rates but of course more power recharge to weapons, science vessels with an average rate and cruisers with the highest rates, lasting longer in the combat, for example, against an escort, just save your energy making weak attacks, putting it on shields for some minutes, when the escort is out of energy, full on weapons and finish it
this would make an all new interesting pvp strategy no ?
for a alpha build, get yourself a warp core with more weapon's cap or recharge

for example, the partol escort would have a 0.8 warp core mod
and the defiant a 0.7

the nebula class would have a bigger warp core mod compared to intrepid or wells since it is an engineering hybrid of a science vessel, causing it to be a viable choice in pvp too, jem dread with a weak warp core mod since it is a tactical ship for example, i mean, pvp is all about tanking and dmging, thats wrong ... this may be what it needs for us to see cruisers lasting longer than other ships

4 dual heavy cannons and 3 turrets ? your ship wont do it if you cant kill your enemy in 5 minutes

why not 2 dual cannon giving more procs and less drain, 1 turret, and 1 torpedo in front/ 2 turrets 1 torpedo aft ? much more energy efficient, with the capacity to attack in a bigger arc in the case your engines are out. less dmg but more durability, this would let weapons with less dmg to be valueable in pvp too

i know it is just speculation, and it requires some reprogramming, but damn, that would be just what i would like to see in a pvp: engineers viable for pvp with nadion inversion and eps power transfer really making something, no more zombie tank, alpha strikes with some cost of opportunity... and the cherry on top of a game with the potencial to be a better game
it's not the ship or the build, it's the atitude
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,522
# 4
03-20-2013, 10:38 AM
at this point i think a warp core would just imbalance things further. the people that implement such things dont pvp, well or enough, to get the perspective they would need to balance a new fundamental thing like this.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,228
# 5
03-21-2013, 07:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borgresearcher View Post
it could work, at least in my idea of it, the same as shields or engines, making part of sets like maco, khg, borg, aegis, normal or fleet, etc etc,and working together with crew numbers giving devs a chance to balance things without giving us a complete new list of nerfs for 2013
Main issue I believe is that before this could work as you have mentioned the vortex of crew death needs to be addressed.

Smaller ships with smaller crews benefit most because of crew regen.

But have you ever looked at ships like battlecruisers and carriers with over 2500 crew?

Most of "redshirts" perish in the first few volleys of a torp-spread.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,971
# 6
03-21-2013, 07:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drkfrontiers View Post
Main issue I believe is that before this could work as you have mentioned the vortex of crew death needs to be addressed.

Smaller ships with smaller crews benefit most because of crew regen.

But have you ever looked at ships like battlecruisers and carriers with over 2500 crew?

Most of "redshirts" perish in the first few volleys of a torp-spread.
The Lesser aspects of the tooltips, were they implemented the way they read - it wouldn't be as bad. As it stands though, big crew's a liability from several angles when it's been made out to be a positive thing...meh.

They need to look at crew loss (alive/able), crew regeneration, Theta, and possibly even having Science BOFF abilities (Medical) that help out with crew - not just trying to pass it off on Nurses/Medics. C'mon, where's the Ship's Doctor running Medical Team, eh?
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 7
03-21-2013, 07:36 AM
Originally, science team was called medical team and was used to regen crew....then tactical team was used to regen crew...then it was removed from it as well and replaced by auto distro.

I cannot help but wonder, if the original devs that created boff skills had much deeper understanding of the game. Judging how some skill worked before.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 876
# 8
03-20-2013, 10:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Also, keep in mind it's a Stahl comment. A somewhat cynical manner to look at the comments by Stahl and Geko is the following:

Stahl - things you want to hear about that are never going to happen
Geko - things you do not want to hear about that are going to happen
Heh, that's so very true.
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 640
# 9
03-20-2013, 01:32 PM
My fear regarding warp cores/all the new ideas:

Warp core+Jemmie roachmobile (err, the attack fighter/bugship)

..Need I really say any more?
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 585
# 10
03-20-2013, 05:03 PM
I can't see them adding Warp Cores and it not having some seriously far reaching consequences along the lines of DOff's. It'd probably impact the game in a large way. I'm for it, however it may work, but only so long as Cryptic is ready to dedicate the resources necessary to fleshing them out and balancing them for both PvE and PvP.

I also got a chuckle out of "tacticals are op compared to other classes." Just sayin'.
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