Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 392
So, after having the full set of Bartasq, using the Tactical (one with 5 tac slots) it performs identically to the Jem Hadar Dreadnought. ABsolutely identical, although given, I don't have attack ship pets on my Dread.

My Bartasq':
2 Fleet Disruptor Dual Heavy Cannons
1 Fleet Dual Cannon
1 Disruptor Quad Cannon
4 Disruptor Beam Array (fleet)

Full Borg space set.

HoH'SuS
Subspace Snare
Disruptor Autocannon
Plasmonic Leach
Assimilated Module
Point Defense
4 Disruptor Induction Coils

My Jem'Hadar Dreadnought Carrier:

2 Fleet Disruptor Dual Heavy Cannons
1 Fleet Dual Cannon
1 Disruptor Quad Cannon
4 Disruptor Beam Array (fleet)

Full Borg space set.

3 Ablative Armors
Plasmonic Leach
Assimilated Module
Point Defense
4 Disruptor Induction Coils
2 Advanced Orion Slavers


Overall:
Both ships are grand flagships, TBH, if it wasn't for the buff of having all 3 Bartasq' consoles, they would be literally tied in capability.

But with the additional weapon of the Disruptor Auto Cannon, topped with Subspace Snare, and supported by the HoH'SuS, The Bortasq' is by all means the superior vessel. Both vessels turn at the same rate, etc. In PVP, using Plasmonic leach, subspace snare, borg assimilation beam, Point Defense System, I wiped out 3 Fed Escorts on my own. The HoH'SuS, is equipped with a jump module that puts it in the right position, with a Scatter Volley 3 for the Torps it fires, and 4 Quad Cannons, Rapid Fire 2, etc. On its own, your carrier pet (HoH'SuS) can solo a player escort all on its own. And I saw it do just that 5 mins ago.

The Dread with 2 hanger bays somewhat evens out with the HoH'SuS.

But ultimately, if I had to only have just one or the other, I would take the Bortasq' over the Dread any day of the year. When you fly it, you feel like the biggest bad*** of the Klingon Fleet. Overall, I'm heavily pleased with my purchase. It was more than worth it, and I got the first crit over 115k ever, in almost 2 years playing this game.

Wiped out an Oddyssey in a single volley of my Disruptor Autocannon, it is very close to power with the Guramba's Javelin.

Both ships are excellent ships, just with the bonus given via the mods, topped with the heavy feeling of being in a KDF Battleship, the Bortasq' feels like the superior ship of the two.

Just my 2 cents.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,344
# 2
04-08-2013, 05:48 PM
The Jem'Hadar Dreadnought Carrier (JHDC for short) is far superior, IMO, than the Bortasqu in whatever incarnation is chosen. Some of my reasons, both good and bad:

+/- Both types have horrid turn rates, but the JHDC is slightly superior. 6 for the JHDC vs 5 of the Bortasqu. The margin is small, but the advantage is there for the JHDC.
- Bortasqu has 1 aft weapon more than the JHDC
- Bortasqu has BOFF layout options due to limited Universal BOFF slots.
- Tac version of the Bortasqu boasts the only Cruiser in the game with 5 TAC consoles.
+ JHDC has superior shield mod than the Bortasqu: 1.15 vs 1
+ JHDC has superior hull than the Bortasqu: 45k vs roughly 43k
+++ Bortasqu consoles, namely the full 3 pieces, are IMO quite bad and do nothing but Nerf the ship. The Jem'Hadar Command Interface that comes with the JHDC is a useful, strong debuff by itself. If the JHDC user is luxurious and has access for the full 2 piece bonus with the Jem'Hadar Escort Carrier's Dominion Coordination Protocol, it allows a very nice offensive and manevuerability boost to the entire team (Fleet Maneuver Gamma). Something the Bortasqu's consoles cannot do.

And that is just the ships by themselves. Next I open up the potential that the 2 hangar bays of the JHDC offer, which makes this contest trivial in competition.

++ JHDC offers the player different options to supplement capability, firepower to the player and his team. Since we're talking KDF, which IMO have the superior hangar pets in the game as a faction, you have the potential of loading up advanced versions of KDF specific goodies: Orion Interceptors with Chronitons, Slavers with quantum mines and always able to use beam arrays, Power Siphon Drones for energy draining, To'Duj fighters (numbers, fwd firepower, quantums).
+ Then there's access to non-KDF specific, neutral hangar pets such as the Jem'Hadar Fighters and Attack Ship NPCs. The latter being able to hit quite hard. Also having the option of using Elite Scorpion Fighters.
+ JHDC having option to mix and match between numerous, cheap fighters and fewer, stronger "frigate" type of hangar pets.
++ The Hangar Pets will operate regardless of direction the target is at, and even out of the carrier's weapon's range. This greatly helps in alleviating some of the issues of the carrier being so sluggish in turning. Regardless of where the target is at, the TRUE source of firepower of the carrier, it's hangar pets, can always attack the target regardless of where the JHDC is pointing.
+ On top of the fighters, the JHDC can contribute its own firepower to the fighters' efforts. With 4/3 fwd & aft weapon slots, 4 TAC Console Slots, Cmdr & Lt TAC BOFF stations, and if you're insane, the Universal Lt BOFF station, the JHDC is no slouch in firepower.
++ The hangar pets are more "spam" in the battle against the enemy, PVE or PVP. Think of them as a screen for your teammates, especially if lots of the smaller, cheaper fighters are flying around.
+ The Hohsus BOP console for the Bortasqu has a cooldown of several minutes once it gets blown away, which is quite easy to do. A carrier though can easily replace those losses in less than a minute, even far less with the cheaper fighters, and even less time with high Aux power.

Overall, with the ships only, it's fairly close. But since the JHDC is a full-fledged, 2-hangar carrier that is also the most powerful firepower-wise of all the Carriers in the game, the JHDC is by far the better option between these 2 ships. It's also not fragile like the Kar'Fi carrier since it has LtCmdr ENG BOFF station and 4 ENG Console Slots on top of its great hull and above average shield mod. The hangars offer so much more options, customization, and supplement to the team than the Bortasqu could ever do.

All this is why I fly the JHDC any day, any hour of the week over the Bortasqu set, which I purchased long ago.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,841
# 3
04-08-2013, 06:15 PM
I hadn't bought either one yet. But going over the stats and what I can do with them. I rather go JHDC over the Klingon ship. Even looking at the JHDC strikes fear into your opponent.

I'm currently saving up for a JHDC.
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 392
# 4
04-08-2013, 07:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by farmallm View Post
I hadn't bought either one yet. But going over the stats and what I can do with them. I rather go JHDC over the Klingon ship. Even looking at the JHDC strikes fear into your opponent.

I'm currently saving up for a JHDC.
Not quite that much fear, but to each their own. Having both ships, I'm actually enjoying my Bortasq' more.Especially since I can deal an instant 90k alpha strike as an opening blow, subspace snare followed by assimilation tractor beam, point defense, with plasmonic leach, and 11k DPS overall with a supporting ship that has 10k DPS on its own as well that spam launches Transphasic Torpedos, overall I'm very happy with the Bortasq'.

With all 3 consoles equipped, I have essentially +19% Crit Chance with both projectile, and energy weapons, and +36% accuracy. (When you do the math of +12 Energy Weapon Specialization, and +12 Projectile weapon specialization, and +12 Targetting Systems)
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,841
# 5
04-09-2013, 05:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by benovide View Post
Not quite that much fear, but to each their own. Having both ships, I'm actually enjoying my Bortasq' more.Especially since I can deal an instant 90k alpha strike as an opening blow, subspace snare followed by assimilation tractor beam, point defense, with plasmonic leach, and 11k DPS overall with a supporting ship that has 10k DPS on its own as well that spam launches Transphasic Torpedos, overall I'm very happy with the Bortasq'.

With all 3 consoles equipped, I have essentially +19% Crit Chance with both projectile, and energy weapons, and +36% accuracy. (When you do the math of +12 Energy Weapon Specialization, and +12 Projectile weapon specialization, and +12 Targetting Systems)
By the looks is what I was going by. And how I was going to set mine up. I mainly do PVE so it will strike plenty of fear in my opponents. Since I already have 2 Klingon type ships and 1 Breen. I thought the JHDC would make a good other ship to have. It will give me a new type of playing style as well. Since I don't have a carrier on any of my characters.
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 392
# 6
04-09-2013, 09:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by farmallm View Post
By the looks is what I was going by. And how I was going to set mine up. I mainly do PVE so it will strike plenty of fear in my opponents. Since I already have 2 Klingon type ships and 1 Breen. I thought the JHDC would make a good other ship to have. It will give me a new type of playing style as well. Since I don't have a carrier on any of my characters.
It plays mostly the same to the Bortasqu', only main difference being is the control of the pets, unless you have attack ship pets, I would go for the Bortasqu' for the firepower, and higher crits.


For the first time ever playing this game, I am getting crits in excess of 20k regularily.

And BTW, as far as "Armor", if the targets are through the shields, that armor isn't going to do much regardless. Ever do the actual MATH of how effective the armor is? You can have 120 resistance to Plasma via armor, when it hits the hull, In total, out of 1000 DPS, you only took off 240 DPS off the total hit. Tie that into a massive crit, or higher DPS, it wont make any significant difference.

Shield resistance on the other hand, is a HUGE deal. But Armor? Not an issue at all, if it gets through the shields, you're going to die or be near death regardless.

OH and for the record, I have 13 Dreadnought kills in my Bortasqu' now. All 13 different players.

Last edited by benovide; 04-09-2013 at 09:31 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,015
# 7
04-10-2013, 07:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by benovide View Post
Not quite that much fear, but to each their own. Having both ships, I'm actually enjoying my Bortasq' more.Especially since I can deal an instant 90k alpha strike as an opening blow, subspace snare followed by assimilation tractor beam, point defense, with plasmonic leach, and 11k DPS overall with a supporting ship that has 10k DPS on its own as well that spam launches Transphasic Torpedos, overall I'm very happy with the Bortasq'.

With all 3 consoles equipped, I have essentially +19% Crit Chance with both projectile, and energy weapons, and +36% accuracy. (When you do the math of +12 Energy Weapon Specialization, and +12 Projectile weapon specialization, and +12 Targetting Systems)
This is quite simply wrong.

-The Hoh'sus does not do that kind of damage. Vids and logs if are required if you want us to believe it.
-It's +12 to Projectile Weapon Damage, not Specialization
-Your math is wildly, incredibly wrong. The borg console and +12 to weapon specialization will not get you to 19%. I don't know how you can be so wrong on this since it's an easily found stat.
-A +12 to targeting does not translated to +36% acc.

Your claims are ludicrous and unsupported. Your build is bad and you should feel bad for posting it.
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 392
# 8
04-10-2013, 08:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redricky View Post
This is quite simply wrong.

-The Hoh'sus does not do that kind of damage. Vids and logs if are required if you want us to believe it.
-It's +12 to Projectile Weapon Damage, not Specialization
-Your math is wildly, incredibly wrong. The borg console and +12 to weapon specialization will not get you to 19%. I don't know how you can be so wrong on this since it's an easily found stat.
-A +12 to targeting does not translated to +36% acc.

Your claims are ludicrous and unsupported. Your build is bad and you should feel bad for posting it.
Nope, it says specialization.

Not damage

Specialization.

And nope, do the math on increases via the skill tree on each point.
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 392
# 9
04-08-2013, 07:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by warmaker001b View Post
The Jem'Hadar Dreadnought Carrier (JHDC for short) is far superior, IMO, than the Bortasqu in whatever incarnation is chosen. Some of my reasons, both good and bad:

+/- Both types have horrid turn rates, but the JHDC is slightly superior. 6 for the JHDC vs 5 of the Bortasqu. The margin is small, but the advantage is there for the JHDC.
- Bortasqu has 1 aft weapon more than the JHDC
- Bortasqu has BOFF layout options due to limited Universal BOFF slots.
- Tac version of the Bortasqu boasts the only Cruiser in the game with 5 TAC consoles.
+ JHDC has superior shield mod than the Bortasqu: 1.15 vs 1
+ JHDC has superior hull than the Bortasqu: 45k vs roughly 43k [color="Blue"]It's 43,500 vs 44,000 The dread only has 500 more HP.[/COLOR]
+++ Bortasqu consoles, namely the full 3 pieces, are IMO quite bad and do nothing but Nerf the ship. Can't nerf a ship, when the HoH'SuS alone can alpha wipe out 4 B'Roth BoP pets in the first strike, Even solo a player on its own. The Disruptor Autocannon deals 90k damage per burst, the subspace snare puts the target you wish to **** directly in from of your ship. All 3 modules together grant you a +12 in Target Systems Skill, +12 in Energy Weapon Specialization, and +12 in Projectile Weapon Specialization, .5 in turn, and 25% recharge reduction in all 3 consoles abilities, that is far greater than even the ability of the Assimilated module, highest impact in weapons capability. The Jem'Hadar Command Interface that comes with the JHDC is a useful, strong debuff by itself. If the JHDC user is luxurious and has access for the full 2 piece bonus with the Jem'Hadar Escort Carrier's Dominion Coordination Protocol, it allows a very nice offensive and manevuerability boost to the entire team (Fleet Maneuver Gamma). Something the Bortasqu's consoles cannot do.

And that is just the ships by themselves. Next I open up the potential that the 2 hangar bays of the JHDC offer, which makes this contest trivial in competition.

++ JHDC offers the player different options to supplement capability, firepower to the player and his team. Since we're talking KDF, which IMO have the superior hangar pets in the game as a faction, you have the potential of loading up advanced versions of KDF specific goodies: Orion Interceptors with Chronitons, Slavers with quantum mines and always able to use beam arrays, Power Siphon Drones for energy draining, To'Duj fighters (numbers, fwd firepower, quantums). To'Duj fighters and Jem Hadar Fighters are useless, Orion Interceptors cannot be equipped on non-Orion Ships. Power Siphon Drones can, but use is heavily limited, due to their low HP and high recharge.
+ Then there's access to non-KDF specific, neutral hangar pets such as the Jem'Hadar Fighters and Attack Ship NPCs. The latter being able to hit quite hard. Also having the option of using Elite Scorpion Fighters.
+ JHDC having option to mix and match between numerous, cheap fighters and fewer, stronger "frigate" type of hangar pets. Not that great of a bonus DPS wise, unless it's Jem Hadar ATtack Ships (I haven't fought a Dread in my Bortasq' yet that had JHAS hanger pets) The HoH'SuS deployable, can wipe out all 12 fighters in a single alpha strike, and teleport instantly behind the Dreadnought. (Did it earlier today) Leaving a Flagship to the front with a 90k hitting weapon, and to the rear a 10k DPS attack ship.
++ The Hangar Pets will operate regardless of direction the target is at, and even out of the carrier's weapon's range. This greatly helps in alleviating some of the issues of the carrier being so sluggish in turning. Regardless of where the target is at, the TRUE source of firepower of the carrier, it's hangar pets, can always attack the target regardless of where the JHDC is pointing. HoH'SuS will also engage targets up to 13 km away. As can the HoH'SuS engage the target regardless of direction the Bortasq' is facing.
+ On top of the fighters, the JHDC can contribute its own firepower to the fighters' efforts. With 4/3 fwd & aft weapon slots, 4 TAC Console Slots, Cmdr & Lt TAC BOFF stations, and if you're insane, the Universal Lt BOFF station, the JHDC is no slouch in firepower. You can have up to 3 Tacs in the Bortasq', with 5 Tac console slots, and the same weapons loadout of the JHDC, + one more rear weapon to bare.
++ The hangar pets are more "spam" in the battle against the enemy, PVE or PVP. Think of them as a screen for your teammates, especially if lots of the smaller, cheaper fighters are flying around. Spam doesn't help much when they are swatted like flies. Hense why you're stuck spamming them.
+ The Hohsus BOP console for the Bortasqu has a cooldown of several minutes once it gets blown away, which is quite easy to do. A carrier though can easily replace those losses in less than a minute, even far less with the cheaper fighters, and even less time with high Aux power. Decent Aux Power, it takes 2 minutes to redeploy the HoH'SuS, a ship that can alpha strike 4 B'Roth BoPs, and bring the Vo'Quv to near death just by itself. As well as wipe out a player run escort on its own without support.

Overall, with the ships only, it's fairly close. But since the JHDC is a full-fledged, 2-hangar carrier that is also the most powerful firepower-wise of all the Carriers in the game, the JHDC is by far the better option between these 2 ships. It's also not fragile like the Kar'Fi carrier since it has LtCmdr ENG BOFF station and 4 ENG Console Slots on top of its great hull and above average shield mod. The hangars offer so much more options, customization, and supplement to the team than the Bortasqu could ever do.

But the majority of ships available to "customize" the Dreadnought, have little effect due to how limited of choices you have, who's effects of pets become near to none when the pet of the Bortasq' on its own without help from the Mothership can do a Torpedo Spread 3 and wipe out all 12 of the ship pets. And can even Alpha Strike 4 B'Roth BoPs.

All this is why I fly the JHDC any day, any hour of the week over the Bortasqu set, which I purchased long ago.
See the blue writing.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,344
# 10
04-09-2013, 05:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by benovide View Post
See the blue writing.
The Hoh'sus BOP console is a total joke. It's weak for what it's supposed to be and nothing more than a decoy on a long cooldown. That thing does nothing more than any of the "frigate" hangar pets in the game. Not only that, when it dies, and die quickly it will in PVP, it's on a long cooldown, 3-piece set bonus or not.

And how long is that Disruptor Autocannon cooldown again? Several minutes.

In addition with the Disruptor Autocannon, it is a cannon, mounted on a ship with one of the worst turn rates of the entire game. If that does not alarm bells to you, especially in PVP, I don't know what will. Cannon heavier than single ones by nature dictate that you require maneuverability to maximize its use. They have very narrow arcs and you need good turn rate to more easily bring that firepower to bear on the enemy. The Bortasqu' is fail in that regard. Once you're out of that decloaking strike and on that long Subspace Snare cooldown, your target selection is problematic. In PVP, players move shifty, even cruisers. More so with the nimble Escorts and Sci Cruisers to a degree.

How long is that cooldown for the Subspace Snare?

So you're telling me, that only ONCE in every few minutes that the Bortasqu' Cruisers can shine?

To'Duj Fighter and JH Fighter value: Depends on the player. But between the two, I prefer the Adv.To'Duj Fighters.

Also, you are completely wrong about Orion Slavers and Interceptors being only usable on Orion Ships. I've used them on my Vo'Quv and JHDC, for example. Flexibility in action.

Again, even the most powerful frigate hangar pet NPCs take less than a minute to recharge after launch. And that is if you're pumping all available subsystem power to the other stuff like Weapons & Shields, which I frequently do with the JHDC. Even better recharge with more Aux settings, popping Aux Battery, or whatever means to temporarily boost Aux Power. Despite throwing everything my ship has into weapons and shields, I can still pump out a pair of powerful frigates than the Hoh'Sus BOP, even with the 3 piece Bortasqu' console bonus.

Also, the target also must contend with the hangar pets launched by the carrier as well as the JHDC's own considerable firepower.

And why the hell are you talking about the Bortasqu against KDF warships and fighters in the KDF Fleetyards forum in a KDF related ship thread? Last I saw PVP was mostly going against the Feds. And in Kerrat, you're against the Feds. And last I saw, KvK PVP is DEAD.

Also, you can try to keep swatting the flies of hangar pets, just as long as it takes your focus off the JHDC and its capabilities as a warship on its own.

A KDF player with the JHDC has options. Options that the Bortasqu' does not have. I'm sorry, I never believed in the Hoh'Sus BOP. It's a total joke.

Sorry, the JHDC is still a far better package overall for a KDF player than the Bortasqu'. You get a blend of firepower, survivability in hull / shielding / Eng Consoles, as well as the options granted by a bonafide, full 2 hangars. And the options are even larger with fancier hangar pets and if you have the Jem'Hadar Escort Carrier's console to throw into the mix. The Fleet Maneuver Gamma is a very nice TEAM offensive and maneuverability buff. And those consoles can only be used on Jem'Hadar warships, which the JHDC qualifies.

The contest was never close.
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