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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 959
# 1 RCS changes
04-22-2013, 06:21 AM
Shameless pseudo-crosspost:

Quote:
Originally Posted by archoncryptic View Post
The RCS Accelerator change will benefit any ship that uses a RCS Accelerator, it's just a larger boost to slower ships (compared to previously).

Before, faster ships were actually getting a larger percentage of their turn rate buffed - not just a larger number, but a larger percentage. With my change, slower ships will get a larger percentage of their turn rate increased, but faster ships will still get a larger numeric boost in total.

In all cases, this is a buff; even fast ships will still be getting a larger turn rate bonus from these consoles than they previously did.
What if this console reduced the difference between the starting turn rate of the ship and some theoretical max? (Say, 22?)

Then slow turners would benefit a lot, but Bugs would barely benefit.

If it is a buff to all ships, then some escorts will become insane.
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Captain
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# 2
04-22-2013, 06:24 AM
It looks like every change in STO must end as a buff for escorts.
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,246
# 3
04-22-2013, 06:31 AM
Given the mechanical structure of the game, where every ship has about 6-8 guns, and otherwise identical stats, except Escorts have better stats, why is it surprising that just about any change benefits Escorts more and hurts Escorts less?

Let's face it: Even if you buffed beams to the point where they were better than cannons, you'd just stick the same beams on Escorts and be better again still. Short of creating unique mechanics that apply specifically only to non-Escortesques, such as items that ONLY Cruisers or Science Ships can use, Escorts can simply do just about everything PvE-relevant better. The new EPTS changes, for instance, make cruisers completely obsolete, while actually making escorts better! If you want the ponderous yet powerful feel that Cruiser gameplay fails to deliver on? Fly a carrier.
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# 4
04-22-2013, 06:33 AM
A Mk XII purple RCS is currently a 40% boost, IIRC. If we took a ship with a turn rate of 6 and applied the same percentage to (22 - 6 = 16), we would get 6.4 for a total of 12.4. Pretty good! But a Bug would get 0.8 for a total of 20.8.

If necessary, you set an upper limit of benefit of, say 5. Then our initial ship would go to only 11. Or, restrict the total gain to 100% of the initial turn rate.
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Posts: 3,390
# 5
04-22-2013, 06:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
It looks like every change in STO must end as a buff for escorts.

It looks like every change in STO must come with people crying about Escorts, even when those changes bring good things for everyone.


If you're so at the end of your rope with this game's direction that something so promising as RCS changes giving a much larger boost to Cruiser turn rates than they give now still sees you instead posting negatively about Escorts, you might need a short break from the game bud.
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,246
# 6
04-22-2013, 06:39 AM
Worth noting is that turn rate already has an inherent diminishing return to it: If you can pull a 180 faster than your guns can cycle, more just makes your ship harder to control, and at some point your turn rate can be considered to be on-a-dime, and more is simply superfluous and doesn't improve your performance.
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Join Date: Jul 2012
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# 7
04-22-2013, 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by doffingcomrade View Post
Worth noting is that turn rate already has an inherent diminishing return to it: If you can pull a 180 faster than your guns can cycle, more just makes your ship harder to control, and at some point your turn rate can be considered to be on-a-dime, and more is simply superfluous and doesn't improve your performance.
"Diminishing returns" as discovered by the USAF, right? (the F-16 is capable of manuevers that are not humanly possible to execute, much less survive. One of the core pieces of software it has, is a G-Limiter to prevent the pilot from killing himself, and the bird, by over-exuberant manuevering.)

For your Cruiser pilots worried about the Escorts getting more of a buff from RCS than anyone, please remember-the twitchier your ship is past a certain point, the harder it is to line up good shots. I have a friend (actually the guy who got me INTO this game) whom, in his first experience with a BoP/KDF character, sat in my office complaining about how 'twitchy' the ship was, and how he wanted to go back to his Fed-style cruisers with the handling he understood better.

I pointed him to the Commander-level K'tinga, and now he is happy(er).

On the whole, as the Dev said, this is a good thing for the Cruiser users out there, along with sci ship users, but it's kind of insignifcant to us BoP drivers-we already HAVE ships that run the edge of controllable without needing a console to buff turn rate, and while it may help some sorts of Escorts (bugships), it's not really a significant contribution to most escorts, regardless of how high the bonuses are.

You don't benefit if your turn rate exceeds the speed of your control inputs.
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."
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# 8
04-22-2013, 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
For your Cruiser pilots worried about the Escorts getting more of a buff from RCS than anyone, please remember-the twitchier your ship is past a certain point, the harder it is to line up good shots. I have a friend (actually the guy who got me INTO this game) whom, in his first experience with a BoP/KDF character, sat in my office complaining about how 'twitchy' the ship was, and how he wanted to go back to his Fed-style cruisers with the handling he understood better.
I'm actually not afraid of this. But that instead 3 RCS, they will get the same effect from 2 RCS consoles, thus leaving room for another P2W tool or armor.

But let's hope I'm just too worried, and the numbers won't be that extreme.
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# 9
04-22-2013, 11:21 AM
So where and/or when we can see/test those changes?
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 10
04-22-2013, 06:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
It looks like every change in STO must come with people crying about Escorts, even when those changes bring good things for everyone.


If you're so at the end of your rope with this game's direction that something so promising as RCS changes giving a much larger boost to Cruiser turn rates than they give now still sees you instead posting negatively about Escorts, you might need a short break from the game bud.
As long as you can preach and lecture others about premade in half of your post, I'm free to voice my concers about anything. I do not think escorts as they are, need more bonuses to turn.
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