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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 824
In an era of advanced or elite hangar pets showing up with greater and greater frequency, ships that separate as their special feature are increasingly falling behind, as they have no way of improving their spawned pet like carriers can. it's gotten so bad that a fleet advanced escort's sections are losing 1 vs 1 with danaube runabouts.

That's ridiculous. These are ships that bitchslapped the romulans, and they're getting owned by shuttles?

Ridiculous.

But of course Cryptic can't just buff the sections, that would heresy, so we're stuck between a rock and a hard place, and let me tell you I'm feeling increasingly unfavoured here, especially with carriers bloody everywhere at this point.


With that in mind, it occurred to me that there'd be a really, really simple systems fix to support separation-capable ships.

We know that the ability to spawn multiple sections is enabled by the console, so why not have the dilithium store/fleet store sell more 'advanced' versions of the console.

A MVAM could buy an 'advanced MVAM console' that spawns higher quality sections, or an 'elite MVAM console' perhaps from the fleet store, which would spawn even higher sections- comparable or superior to the other frigate hangar pets out there, given their limitations.

The same for exploration retrofits (galaxy R's), Ody's with chevron separation or the aquarius and the Bortas with it's support ship.


A lot of these ships are really getting left in the dust in the face of all these cool and powerful carrier pets, when strictly speaking, the spawned sections from these ships *should* be superior to those pets in capability.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 2
04-26-2013, 03:14 AM
As much as I love my Galaxy I do not expect the saucer to be combat worthy. I understand the point from MVAE tho.
Ensign
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 25
# 3
04-26-2013, 04:50 AM
Well MVAE separation pets were always pretty useless. The benefit was the increased turn albeit by sacrificing hull and shield.

With power creep from a steady release of newer and better hanger pets they became even more worthless as combat pets. Mine would generally die in the first battle they were involved in from warp core breach explosions.

I recently put my MVAM console in the bank. I simply had too many good consoles to slot for the MVAM to remain equipped. So I would welcome an improved version.
Commander
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 332
# 4
04-26-2013, 08:21 AM
Same issue with the Vulcan D'kyr's Tal'kyr support craft. It becomes disabled within a few seconds whenever I use it in crystalline catastrophe from the random attacks the crystalline entity does, or the fire at will used by the tholian ships. Worse, it only seems to heal your own ship rather than helping heal allies - even if they're right next to you - and you cant control it at all.


IMO, seperation and support craft like that (saucers, multi-vector sections, the tal'kyr support craft, and the aquarius destroyer and its kdf equivalent) need to have similar attack evasion/defense to fighters, and some kind of aoe defense - and they should all be given the basic carrier commands that carriers have access to.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,329
# 5
04-27-2013, 09:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by telbasta7386 View Post
Same issue with the Vulcan D'kyr's Tal'kyr support craft. It becomes disabled within a few seconds whenever I use it in crystalline catastrophe from the random attacks the crystalline entity does, or the fire at will used by the tholian ships. Worse, it only seems to heal your own ship rather than helping heal allies - even if they're right next to you - and you cant control it at all.


IMO, seperation and support craft like that (saucers, multi-vector sections, the tal'kyr support craft, and the aquarius destroyer and its kdf equivalent) need to have similar attack evasion/defense to fighters, and some kind of aoe defense - and they should all be given the basic carrier commands that carriers have access to.
One nice thing for the Tal'Kyr would be that it NOT shoot anything but High Yield Torps and Mines... I have suggested this before because the last thing it needs to do is take Aggro.


The OP's suggestion is an interesting one and perhaps worthy. I am not sure if Cryptic will ever do this but honestly most ship based pets are absolutely pathetic. The Aquarius is MAYBE as good as 2 Normal Peregrines if you are lucky when even one bay will launch 6 of them in total...

The HoH'SuS for the KDF cannot hold a candle to even one of the Frigates for its side let alone 2 of ANY of those fighters.

The MVAE pieces are... Well... Absolutely worthless at this point. The only thing that console does is make you move better and blow up faster now... That is so sad because the MVAE practically got me INTERESTED in STO and for a time it was an Awesome ship but after the power creep and the unparalleled nerfbat beatdown that Science Abilities got the ship is a joke.

I do not think either Saucer really needs to be improved any. The reason you drop it is to move faster not to have it help you in combat. I always argued that the Saucer should actually just leave considering that it was supposed to take your civilian crew out of harm's way while the Stardrive section threw down.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 424
# 6
04-27-2013, 04:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by icybrilliance View Post
Well MVAE separation pets were always pretty useless. The benefit was the increased turn albeit by sacrificing hull and shield.

With power creep from a steady release of newer and better hanger pets they became even more worthless as combat pets. Mine would generally die in the first battle they were involved in from warp core breach explosions.

I recently put my MVAM console in the bank. I simply had too many good consoles to slot for the MVAM to remain equipped. So I would welcome an improved version.
Hmm, they could probably turn it into a revenue stream, release an UR Seperation console [that can only be purchased if you own the appropriate ship/old console] specific to each of the ships for a Chunk of Dilithium.
Survivor of Remus
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 7
# 7
04-26-2013, 12:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
As much as I love my Galaxy I do not expect the saucer to be combat worthy. I understand the point from MVAE tho.
Saucer separation was originally conceived in the TOS era as a life boat mechanism, not a combat option. However it evolved during the TNG thru Voyager era into a combat option so at this point they should be better than a shuttle in a fight, not worse.
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,601
# 8
04-26-2013, 01:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by konaldo View Post
Saucer separation was originally conceived in the TOS era as a life boat mechanism, not a combat option. However it evolved during the TNG thru Voyager era into a combat option so at this point they should be better than a shuttle in a fight, not worse.
adding the refits the ships would have gotten in 30 years of dominion/ borg/ klingon war the federation has been involved in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redz4tw View Post
can you say attack pattern angry forumers 3?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,063
# 9
04-26-2013, 11:16 PM
The point of the saucer sep type pets is essentially to get RID of the saucer (a lot of people seem to ignore that fact). However, the Aquarius needs work badly. The MVAE components seem to do decently to me, but I haven't got extensive experience with them so I could easily be wrong, and they seem to only be marginally smarter than the suicidal Odyssey pet pair.

I really would have thought the Aquarius and MVAE pets, at least, would suck less.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,764
# 10
04-26-2013, 11:23 PM
I'd totally agree, all Separation and Pet consoles should get upgrades in the Dil-store and the Fleet Store.

The only problem becomes, how the hell do you stop someone from buying the Elite MVAM console when he's only got the FAM instead of the C-store MVAM? Give them a discount? And are we happy that people without the c-store ship can buy the console and FAM without ever going into the c-store?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt. Comm. Pion
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