Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,416
# 1 dhc vrs beams
05-28-2013, 09:46 AM
so i got told that beams do more dps then dhc in pve.

which doesnt make any sense given my time in pvp.

so which is it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
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Rihannsu
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 587
# 2
05-28-2013, 09:51 AM
Anybody knows that in PvP, Sustain Dps < Concentrated Dps, and in PvE it's the other way around.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 3
05-28-2013, 09:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maicake716 View Post
so i got told that beams do more dps then dhc in pve.

which doesnt make any sense given my time in pvp.

so which is it?
1) It's true to an extent.
2) It requires a fairly specific build.
3) Most of the DPS output is AoE and comes from constant FAW spam, with TAC buffs, DEM, A2B and several other methods of mitigating drain as well as RomPlas BAs with Embassy consoles, Experimental Array, etc.


So ultimately, yes, it does technically higher DPS in PvE as BFAW is hitting multiple targets nearly all of the time vs. DHCs which are limited to 45 degree arc and 3 targets max with CSV.

The build link above is legit, I've run with him and he does in fact parse as high (20k to even 26k DPS) as he says he does (as do quite a few of these specialized builds I've seen).


Last edited by ussultimatum; 05-28-2013 at 09:59 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,416
# 4
05-28-2013, 09:58 AM
so theres nothing that can be done to make a dhc/dc build be higher?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
Do you even Science Bro?
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,874
# 5
05-28-2013, 10:03 AM
Cannons do more damage on targets in front of you, beams do more damage to targets around you. If you keep your targets in front of you, CSV and TS will do more actual damage, IE killing them faster.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 677
# 6
05-31-2013, 09:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ursusmorologus View Post
Cannons do more damage on targets in front of you, beams do more damage to targets around you. If you keep your targets in front of you, CSV and TS will do more actual damage, IE killing them faster.
Well thats a bit of a weird statement as that can be done with both weapons.

Only difference is broadsiding.


For the OP, DPS, spike, whatever you call it. Its at the end all 'DPS'. Its just a term to specify a specific amount of damage calculated per sec.

But that can be a specific time frame, over a whole encounter, etc. The DPS on my bop over 5 seconds is massive, but plummets severely in the other 143542359325 seconds lol.

I dunno but we have 4 facings and a hull to work with, for pure penetration on 1 facing to hull + hull, DHC no doubt. Unless somone can make a broadside boat that penetrates and spikes as much as DHC's? never seen that in my life. (Not that i tried myself tho ;P)
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 7
05-28-2013, 10:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maicake716 View Post
so theres nothing that can be done to make a dhc/dc build be higher?
It's semi-doable, but (its numberin' time!!!)...

1) You have to make even more of a glass cannon than his cruiser, with lower base mitigation and less survivability tools.
2) You still will be unlikely to hit 20k+ plus sustained DPS regularly.
3) You will always be limited to 3 targets, that you may or may not be able to keep in arc.
4) Suffer worse DPS drop off due to range issues. Even when tryin to fight at point blank range, you lose "DPS" while moving from targets to targets. Also point blank range is bad for hitting multiple targets with CSV.


The DHC/DC is still better at burst and has the real single target DPS output, but if you are running with 5 super-tuned ships for STF DPS running (ave: 4 to 5 mins per STF) you're going to be hard pressed even in the most maneuverable of escorts to get your DHCs on enough targets all of the time to hit the same numbers.


Most super-tuned PvE DPS escorts probably fall in the 10k to 14k DPS range, with max highs in the 18k range.

Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,929
# 8
05-28-2013, 10:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maicake716 View Post
so theres nothing that can be done to make a dhc/dc build be higher?
Ya you can go faster. Seriously... just get to the stuff that needs blowing up fast and kill in before Mr Faw racks up a ton of "DPS" off it. lol

Beams have the better pve aoe skill... its true.

The thing is WHO cares what your Damage Per Second is averaged out over a STF or a PvP match.

We are pvpers and Forcing people to respawn is sort of what we should care about.

Honestly there is a lot of people that would be well served to just delete there parsing programs, there not helping them. lol

There is only one question that you need to ask yourself in regard to a PvP build...

"How long will it take me to deliver More dmg then my target has hull"

Now if the answer to that isn't fast enough to negate peoples healing cycles... then you have problems.. The kind of problems that COULD possibly lead you to the terrible Parser philosophy that may well see you racking up 1mil+ dmg on a score board... and still loosing matches. lol

{on the note of cycles... if people would watch buffs on targets a little more they would become much more effective. I still see people that consider themselves to be good pvpers who are obviously not paying to much attention to who they are shooting at.}

At this point if you are flying a non support ship... and honestly even if you are. There is no real excuse to not have a build that can have a stradagy to burst someone down. Now not every build will be able to do that every 30s... but really even a healing build can be setup to be able to deliver that "alpha shock" every 3min or so.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.

Last edited by antoniosalieri; 05-28-2013 at 10:26 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 9
05-28-2013, 10:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
Ya you can go faster. Seriously... just get to the stuff that needs blowing up fast and kill in before Mr Faw racks up a ton of "DPS" off it. lol

Beams have the better pve aoe skill... its true.

The thing is WHO cares what your Damage Per Second is averaged out over a STF or a PvP match.
I agree with most of what you said, especially for PvP.


However:

Seriously... just get to the stuff that needs blowing up fast and kill in before Mr Faw racks up a ton of "DPS" off it.

This doesn't really work in STFs with the raw hull of most targets, with BFAW running constantly. The more FAW boats there are running this the harder it actually becomes for the DHC set up.


The thing is WHO cares what your Damage Per Second is averaged out over a STF...

People who want to complete stuff faster?

Seriously, I wouldn't build this myself but there is something to be said for completing 3 Elite STFs in 15 minutes so I can go grind my face on all of the other stuff I need to grind.

Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,929
# 10
05-28-2013, 10:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
People who want to complete stuff faster?
Well I don't have any issues there with my cannon boats... well some of my ships have a beam for an overload... still mostly cannons. I'm pretty sure where both in DPS-11,000.

Honestly the only PvE beam cruisers I have seen rack up more dps then my hardcore dps builds are ones with ALL the pve gear.

Full Plasma builds... with ROM no power beam. In cruisers that can slot 3-4 embassy consoles. They also almost always have the one rom torp so they can load the console for another +9% plasma dmg.

I don't think anyone running none PVE plasma beams will out dmg the top cannon build flyers.

I think my infected record is around 18k. I have heard of people topping 20k in a beam cruiser... but I have yet to be in the same instance as any of them.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
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