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Lt. Commander
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 184
I am a Cruiser captain and I love those ships. They are far more graceful and beautiful then any BoP or psudo-escort (I call them "psudo" because not counting the Defiant, there are no other Federation escorts) could hope to be.

The problem is, in PvP, Cruisers have no real purpose except to fill up space on the team. Cruisers do not have the hull or shield strength to withstand a massive alpha strike from an opposing team which happens more often then not and sub-nuc completely gimps them.

However because Escort damage is through the roof, there needs to be a few balance changes. I would suggest doubling all cruiser hull and shield strength base stats and then effectively keeping their damage the same. This means they would not be overpowered and they could still be killed by Escorts but would provide them with a far more effective role in PvP.

This would give them the ability to support other ships without having to worry too much about constantly buffing themselves and self-healing. This would allow cruisers to fulfill their intended protector role a lot more easier and make cruisers like the Galaxy Class more viable again WITHOUT changing its damage.

If these are supposed to be large, bulky, powerful support ships then can we please make them large and powerful, not allowing them to die in one pass with an alpha strike.

Last edited by sterlingwarbird; 06-04-2013 at 05:27 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,304
# 2
06-04-2013, 05:27 PM
Try taking an escort into five bunched up well specced tac cruisers with fire at will and BO going and tell me how you do >_>

Burning ring of fire. Sure you might get one, but the AOE damage from the other four is going to tear you to shreds. Some of those cruisers do some pretty nasty dps.

That or they live long enough to tractor spam you into oblivion once APO is on cd.
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 184
# 3
06-04-2013, 05:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rylanadionysis View Post
Try taking an escort into five bunched up well specced tac cruisers with fire at will and BO going and tell me how you do >_>

Burning ring of fire. Sure you might get one, but the AOE damage from the other four is going to tear you to shreds. Some of those cruisers do some pretty nasty dps.
Of course, I'm not disputing that which is why I do not want to change their damage, I recognize that Cruiser damage is optimal but larger cruisers with less tactical capability should have much more hull to make up for their lower tactical output. The Excelsior does not need these changes but the Galaxy desperately does.

The Fleet Galaxy should have 88,000 hull and 2.1 shield modifier to make up for its tactical shortfalls. Cryptic needs to look at ships individually and not as part of the "trinity".

Last edited by sterlingwarbird; 06-04-2013 at 05:31 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,304
# 4
06-04-2013, 05:33 PM
Its the same thing with the Negh Var KDF side. Amazing engineering slots... one lt tactical slot, 3 tac consoles. I might tickle a Miranda starter ship >_>

Yeah ill never PvP on Dannika, whats the point, there is no place for a tank/healer in PvP. Just debuffer/healers which of course is the domain of Sci.
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Vice Admiral Victoria - U.S.S. DNT Upsilon X || Lt. General Dannika - I.K.S. DNT Sigma X
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 184
# 5
06-04-2013, 05:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rylanadionysis View Post
Its the same thing with the Negh Var KDF side. Amazing engineering slots... one lt tactical slot.

Yeah ill never PvP on Dannika, whats the point, there is no place for a tank/healer in PvP. Just debuffer/healers which of course is the domain of Sci.
Exactly, Klingon cruisers need the same treatment. Cryptic needs to go back, look at ALL the ships and cater to their individual need to make them all viable. For example, the Fleet Nebula could have an additional "Torpedo Pod" reduced cooldown torpedo rate to make it have something unique over the Vesta and make it a viable Torpedo boat.

Its great that somebody agrees with my idea of looking at ships from an individual standpoint.
Captain
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,304
# 6
06-04-2013, 05:40 PM
Thats the fundamental flaw of the game in its entirety. Everything is about DPS DPS DPS. There is no use for a healer/crowd controller outside of pvp, and the pvp version is really best suited to one of the three captain archetypes.

Honestly I think the engineer archetype as a whole is worthless in space. Might as well roll a tac cappy and throw them in a cruiser. At least then they get some damage specials with survivability. I might experiment with my KDF engineer in an escort but that just seems so dumb to me.

Tac Escort works, Sci Science works, Engineer Cruiser = lol
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Vice Admiral Victoria - U.S.S. DNT Upsilon X || Lt. General Dannika - I.K.S. DNT Sigma X
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Captain
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 2,162
# 7
06-04-2013, 07:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rylanadionysis View Post
Try taking an escort into five bunched up well specced tac cruisers with fire at will and BO going and tell me how you do >_>

Burning ring of fire. Sure you might get one, but the AOE damage from the other four is going to tear you to shreds. Some of those cruisers do some pretty nasty dps.

That or they live long enough to tractor spam you into oblivion once APO is on cd.
I was in a KDF pug once - 9/10 a KDF pug will beat a Fed pug- usually due to better teamwork.

This time we came up against a 5 pre-made group of Oddys.

FAW and chain healing in a tight 5 km circle.

We were vapourized 1/15

Could not separate them - could not break them - 1 was disable the other covered.

They were each running 7 beams and 1 torp - almost full power and beam up-time - tractors and some sci powers

The FAW was blinding.

Don't tell me Fed crusiers are useless.

Last edited by newromulan1; 06-04-2013 at 08:46 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,429
# 8
06-04-2013, 08:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by newromulan1 View Post
I was in a KDF pug once - 9/10 a KDF pug will beat a Fed pug- usually due to better teamork.

This time we came up against a 5 pre-made group of Oddys.

FAW and chain healing in a tight 5 km circle.

We were vapourized 1/15

Could not separate them - could not break them - 1 was disable the other covered.

They were each running 7 beams and 1 torp - almost full power and beam up-time - tractors and some sci powers

The FAW was blinding.

Don't tell me Fed crusiers are useless.
that just shows what a problem FAW can be with organized teams just spaming it. that skill should not exist and just be single target.

in every other situation those cruisers are dealing dull over time damage, and even the strongest of it can be held off long enough to cycle heals, and simply blunted by distribution and resistance levels. at the same time they have little ability to CC, and only a very slight advantage in healing over a sci ship. they are just a bit better at tanking, the least useful thing in pvp.

unless your cruiser can fill the role of an escort or sci ship, or you organize a 5 cruisers FAW ball of death, cruisers are simply the least useful types of ships.
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Captain
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 2,162
# 9
06-04-2013, 08:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
that just shows what a problem FAW can be with organized teams just spaming it. that skill should not exist and just be single target.

in every other situation those cruisers are dealing dull over time damage, and even the strongest of it can be held off long enough to cycle heals, and simply blunted by distribution and resistance levels. at the same time they have little ability to CC, and only a very slight advantage in healing over a sci ship. they are just a bit better at tanking, the least useful thing in pvp.

unless your cruiser can fill the role of an escort or sci ship, or you organize a 5 cruisers FAW ball of death, cruisers are simply the least useful types of ships.
From what I could tell they were all running DEM3 - so that wall of FAW - cut our Bops up like they were tinfoil.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,268
# 10
06-04-2013, 09:24 PM
Regarding the issue of killing cruisers in a single pass: This is NOT as easy as you think it is. Unless someone's running an unsportsmanlike build that throws things like PSW, VM, and other stuns/disables together. . .it's not that easy to take out a cruiser in a single hit. The key thing here is SKILL. Competent cruiser pilots can fend off a decloak alphastrike made by all but the best players. Just throw up a Tactical Team, EPtS, and a hull buff. . .you'll blunt the attack easily. You have to move fast, though, and you have to anticipate the attack. These things take practice and skill.

The only time I've killed a cruiser in a single pass while it was full-hull and mostly full-shielded is when I timed the attack PERFECTLY to coincide with a gap in their defenses, or when I timed it with a subnuke + sensor scan. Or when the player flying the cruiser is so inexperienced and sluggish in their responses that I can deliver my full alphastrike (BO2 + HY3 quantums + 1-2 volleys from DHCs) before they even react.

Outside of these situations, you almost always have to work with 1-2 other decloak-alphastrikers to bring down the target quickly. That's why BoPs really like to fight in packs, especially in Ker'rat. . .we can't exactly slug it out as well as an escort.
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