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Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 61
As a player that really enjoy the carrier pet aspect of the game I appreciate what the devs are doing to improve pet game play with the new UI and improved AI but there is some things that still need some improvement and the AI for pets that use dual cannons as their main energy weapon is one of those things.

I use the Fer'Jai frigates but I assume similar pets have the same problem. The problem is that the front dual cannons hardly ever are used because the pets spend most of their time circling the target like a cruiser leaving the turret the only thing firing. It seems they only turn toward the target when they are ready to fire torpedoes and since they are so fast they can only fire the front cannon for a second or two until they fly past the target and they start circling again.

Doing some patrol missions in Tau Dewa and analyzing the damage output with Advanced Combat Tracker confirms this. My four frigates logged 80-100k total damage with their turrets but only 1-3k damage with their front dual cannons. The damage from the front cannons is so little the weapon could be totally removed at this point and not be missed which is a shame.

I know there was a supposed fix for this issue a few months back in a patch that would make pets with cannons use them more but I didn't see much difference and ACT confirms the issue still exists.

Solutions?

My dream AI for the Fer'Jai frigate: Escort type attack runs straight towards the target(NOT at full speed so they can get some shots in before passing) shooting all energy weapons and torpedoes if they aren't on cool down and when flying past the target drop a mine if they got them. After passing the target they can go full speed again to build up some distance to the target circle around and do another attack run.

I realize this maybe hard to do so my other solution is simple this, switch out the dual cannons with their 45 degree firing arc which the current AI isn't built for and replace them with single cannons. With their 180 degree firing arc they could be used more often and be more useful.

Last edited by kallex76; 07-17-2013 at 08:37 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,099
# 2
07-17-2013, 08:05 PM
I agree. Also the duals on bird of prey pets should be switched out for anything else, single cannons, turrets, or beams.
Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
Rihannsu
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 178
# 3
07-18-2013, 01:46 PM
I tested in the last BoP rebuild for AI and we got it working on for a little bit but it does need a full rebuild.

I'm running 2 Qaw'Duns and they really can only hit with the dual cannon on the alpha strike and even then it is lucky. Most of the time half of them will break off the attack run and circle around.

We need a new AI for strafing run, orbit close(what we currently have) and orbit far (like 6km ish).

I'm down for testing more carrier pet AI stuff if Captain Gecko can give it the green light.
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,137
# 4
07-18-2013, 02:05 PM
I recently checked in an AI update that should help this situation for all cannon-using hangar pets.

It turns out that the AI Weight (a value which helps AI to determine which powers/items to activate) were set incorrectly at very low values on all Fekihri Fighters and Frigates, so they were not performing even as well as BoP pets and Peregrine Fighters. The aforementioned AI update should have a more profound impact on these pets, than on others.

Assigning an AI routine for these pets to follow is not as simple as "do a strafing run" or "fly in figure eights past the target" or anything similar. We have to set up conditional statements for these pets to follow under every single conceivable circumstance. Your requests to send these pets extremely specific positioning commands, in 3D space combat, is almost laughably far into the "easier said than done" category of suggestions. Instead, we have to settle for encouraging the AI to follow certain behaviors in certain categories of situations.

It might be best to think of AI as strong suggestions, not guaranteed commands.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Systems Design
"Play smart!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Me
Kurland here...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 165
# 5
07-18-2013, 02:08 PM
Will this help with other types of pets that use dual cannons? eg Aquarius?

Thanks!
Vice Admiral Elaron, USS Sky Road
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,137
# 6
07-18-2013, 02:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by graleron View Post
Will this help with other types of pets that use dual cannons? eg Aquarius?
This was specifically aimed at hangar pets. I'll take a look at the Aquarius (and the Bortas' BOP launch) and see if it needs similar treatment.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Systems Design
"Play smart!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Me
Kurland here...
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 251
# 7
07-18-2013, 02:13 PM
Why not restrict all fighters/frigates carrier units to turrets only and make special turrets to match the dps.
VA Makbure
The 47th Defense Division Special Ops
Rihannsu
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 178
# 8
07-18-2013, 02:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
I recently checked in an AI update that should help this situation for all cannon-using hangar pets.

It turns out that the AI Weight (a value which helps AI to determine which powers/items to activate) were set incorrectly at very low values on all Fekihri Fighters and Frigates, so they were not performing even as well as BoP pets and Peregrine Fighters. The aforementioned AI update should have a more profound impact on these pets, than on others.

Assigning an AI routine for these pets to follow is not as simple as "do a strafing run" or "fly in figure eights past the target" or anything similar. We have to set up conditional statements for these pets to follow under every single conceivable circumstance. Your requests to send these pets extremely specific positioning commands, in 3D space combat, is almost laughably far into the "easier said than done" category of suggestions. Instead, we have to settle for encouraging the AI to follow certain behaviors in certain categories of situations.

It might be best to think of AI as strong suggestions, not guaranteed commands.
J-man you are a rockstar! Thank you for working hard on a topic the is near and dear to my heart.

I know things I ask for are sometimes outside the realm of possibility but I like to shoot high and end up getting great stuff from Devs like you.

Again thanks for your hard work and I owe you a beer.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 97
# 9
07-18-2013, 02:51 PM
Do you believe Tholian Mesh Weaver frigates (with their Dual Beam Banks) would be improved by this AI update as well? It feels like they don't favor their forward firing arc as much as I would like them to.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,520
# 10
07-18-2013, 03:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
I recently checked in an AI update that should help this situation for all cannon-using hangar pets.

It turns out that the AI Weight (a value which helps AI to determine which powers/items to activate) were set incorrectly at very low values on all Fekihri Fighters and Frigates, so they were not performing even as well as BoP pets and Peregrine Fighters. The aforementioned AI update should have a more profound impact on these pets, than on others.

Assigning an AI routine for these pets to follow is not as simple as "do a strafing run" or "fly in figure eights past the target" or anything similar. We have to set up conditional statements for these pets to follow under every single conceivable circumstance. Your requests to send these pets extremely specific positioning commands, in 3D space combat, is almost laughably far into the "easier said than done" category of suggestions. Instead, we have to settle for encouraging the AI to follow certain behaviors in certain categories of situations.

It might be best to think of AI as strong suggestions, not guaranteed commands.
Some issues like them getting the most out of those cloaks would be beneficial since when you launch them they are not cloaked and then to attack and then recloak after certain amount of time to redo these strafing runs or figure 8's.

Another issue is those skull fighters I hope they are truely better than they are now because they virtually weren't even worth the Dilithium same with the slavers as I did get e lite slavers but like the advanced ones when I play I'm figuring there is some kind of hard cap involved since I do contraband farming with the character that uses the elite slaver that because of the doffing that its never looting anything. So the ability to loot shouldn't be hard capped if that is the case because in this game the slavers could be viewed as an "investment" to continue to get more than what we are getting thus far.

Last issue is the warp core explosion only thing I could suggest that pets have evasive but just a pet version when warp core is detected or if that is not possible than have it where a certain hull percentage makes it where if say a target has 5% hull health that it will turn away from the target when it gets a certain distance from it. The evasive would be easier to kick in when its very low on health but either of these suggestions would on paper/or in theory work to prevent those explosions.
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