Lieutenant
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 86
# 1 Common Courtesy
08-09-2013, 05:08 PM
Okay, so I just finished this PvP match: On the Klink side, there was me in my Torp'varo, a KDF in a Vor'cha, and another Rom T'varo whose @handle shall remain unnamed (for now). On the Feds, there was a JHAS and a JHEC. It was a pug match (at least klink side), 3v2.

The Fed Jem'hadar ships had very strong builds and very competent captains, and we were frankly getting stomped on. The Vor'cha was getting the brunt of the punishment, and I was trying to help him, but also trying to stay alive myself (because, as and EBCing torp ship, I have a hard time staying under extended fire, especially under fire from these ships). I soon realized that the other T'varo captain was AFK. I complained about the matter, and it turns out that our other T'varo captain was intentionally staying out of the fight. I confronted him, and he said that it was "to balance teams, and that you should learn to fly better". While the Vor'cha seemed to be having trouble staying in the fight, I won't say anything bad about his skill, and I'd like to think I'm at least a decent ship captain. It's just a fact that EBC torpoedo-ing leaves you squishy. The final score was, IIRC, 15-6 in favor of the Feds (a great deal of the KDF score was me getting lucky torp strikes on their JHAS), and I was very unhappy.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it true that the best indicator of "balance" is (near) equal number of kills on both teams, not equal number of players? It was clear that me and the Klink were clearly outmatched, and the T'varo's refusal to fight meant there was no chance of what I believed might have been a fair fight. I don't care if one team has more players than another; if the larger team is clearly losing, and you are on the larger team, you should at least try to help your team! It's common courtesy! Seriously, is this some kind of ignorant "tough love" attitude toward those less experienced PvP? Let others get grilled and assume their failure is on their lack of skill, experience, or knowledge in shipbuilding? Why do this?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 2
08-09-2013, 05:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by icepiraka View Post
another Rom T'varo whose @handle shall remain unnamed (for now).
Good on you for not posting the @handle, which is against the forum rules.

Feel free to join OrganizedPvP where you can directly discuss @handles.

Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,229
# 3
08-09-2013, 05:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
Good on you for not posting the @handle, which is against the forum rules.

Feel free to join OrganizedPvP where you can directly discuss @handles.
I was going to ask about his survivability issues in an EBCing Torp'varo, but that probably would have gone badly...so I have to say I'm glad you posted this, because I definitely got a chuckle out of it.

As for the guy staying out of fight, if he was just watching the team lose - well, yeah - can't discuss that on the forums either, lol...but that's not balancing things in the least. Definitely sounds more like...fill in the blank...than anything else.

To the OP, I have sat out of fights myself when on the larger, where the larger team was slaughtering the smaller team - cause, that's just not fun for me. If I wanted that kind of photon grenade in a barrel of fish, I'd go PvE...
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,548
# 4
08-09-2013, 05:52 PM
Well in fairness.... some people don't worry about the score board quite so much.

3 v 2 is often seen as lopsided by many... and they will sit it out. I have no doubt this player was not your typical AFK player waiting for you to make them D.

Sometimes when sides are equal the side with a bit more skill wins... or in this case perhaps the superior equip / ships + skill.

Not saying anything about your build cause I don't know you at all... a little think I love on my torp boats lately though... Aux to Damp with one of the new Purple Sulaban Matter anti Matter Doffs..... awsome combo on the EBC ships.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,268
# 5
08-10-2013, 05:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
Well in fairness.... some people don't worry about the score board quite so much.

3 v 2 is often seen as lopsided by many... and they will sit it out. I have no doubt this player was not your typical AFK player waiting for you to make them D.

Sometimes when sides are equal the side with a bit more skill wins... or in this case perhaps the superior equip / ships + skill.

Not saying anything about your build cause I don't know you at all... a little think I love on my torp boats lately though... Aux to Damp with one of the new Purple Sulaban Matter anti Matter Doffs..... awsome combo on the EBC ships.
Well, think about it. . .a T'Varo (could be retro or fleet) and a Vor'cha (presumably the retrofit or miror versions) versus a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship (arguably the best DPSing-and-speed-tanking escort in the game) and a Jem'hadar Heavy Escort Carrier (a ship able to take hits and give them out, and reasonably nimble for its size and hull). That's not an even match, not unless the KDF-side pilots are clearly more skilled. . .and that's pretty easy to figure out within 20-30 seconds.

It's like someone claiming that a matchup of two BoPs versus an escort and a cruiser/carrier is 'fair' because the numbers are even. Numerical superiority is only one factor. Weight classes (i.e., BoP versus escort), class roles, etc, also factor in. . .and anyone who's spent any decent amount of time PvPing (especially in a place like Ker'rat) should know this.
tIqIpqu' 'ej nom tIqIp
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,548
# 6
08-10-2013, 05:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by timezarg View Post
Well, think about it. . .a T'Varo (could be retro or fleet) and a Vor'cha (presumably the retrofit or miror versions) versus a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship (arguably the best DPSing-and-speed-tanking escort in the game) and a Jem'hadar Heavy Escort Carrier (a ship able to take hits and give them out, and reasonably nimble for its size and hull). That's not an even match, not unless the KDF-side pilots are clearly more skilled. . .and that's pretty easy to figure out within 20-30 seconds.

It's like someone claiming that a matchup of two BoPs versus an escort and a cruiser/carrier is 'fair' because the numbers are even. Numerical superiority is only one factor. Weight classes (i.e., BoP versus escort), class roles, etc, also factor in. . .and anyone who's spent any decent amount of time PvPing (especially in a place like Ker'rat) should know this.
The person the OP was talking about came in here though and said it was 3 to 1 pretty quickly for them lol... that means that either they farmed one of the 2 for 3 or they wiped the 2 of them then one of them after a respawn before he/she bowed out... it was clearly in there view uneven. In my view the OP is simply a sore looser... sounds to me like he was in a 2v2 and lost... where is the crime in that... it happens when you get out classed... sure if they had two varos picking on one guys 15 times they could have won... but what is it we are going for here... fun matches or that sort of must win at all cost crap.

Frankly if it had been me I would have warped the second I got into a failed que match like that.... I would have spammed Tyler Durden Fight Club channel in zone and said see ya there or in the next que... peace.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.

Last edited by antoniosalieri; 08-10-2013 at 05:24 AM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 86
# 7
08-09-2013, 05:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
To the OP, I have sat out of fights myself when on the larger, where the larger team was slaughtering the smaller team - cause, that's just not fun for me. If I wanted that kind of photon grenade in a barrel of fish, I'd go PvE...
Understandable, but this was the opposite case, just in case I wasn't clear.

As for his survivability, well I didn't actually see him fight so I couldn't say, but I'd imagine he may have been as squishy as I was. But hey, you won't see me refusing to fight just because of that, so I don't think that's a particularly good or plausible excuse.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,229
# 8
08-09-2013, 06:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by icepiraka View Post
As for his survivability, well I didn't actually see him fight so I couldn't say, but I'd imagine he may have been as squishy as I was. But hey, you won't see me refusing to fight just because of that, so I don't think that's a particularly good or plausible excuse.
Wasn't his that I was questioning. I don't feel squishy in the least in my T'varo...not in the least. I mean - squishy doesn't come to mind at all with my T'varo.

Now, the MU Deep that I was just dorking around on in Ker'rat...lol...that's damn squishy.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,106
# 9
08-09-2013, 06:49 PM
I normally will wait for the match to fill with more players if its only 2 on the other team, its only common courtesy. Having only 2 opponents is boring anyway.
Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,457
# 10
08-09-2013, 05:58 PM
I did it, idk who knows about it. My self and others do it often, usually we rotate in and out of the fights though. In this case they (we) lost badly b/c they were completely out played, it had nothing to do w/the ships.

Fyi, I was 3-1 when I noticed it was 3v2. I like dogfighting 1 of the guys on the other team in particular (b/c it is a challenge and not boring) and would've rotated in if a pugmate had asked. But, I figured they liked the challenge, until the non-stop whining by the OP @ the end.

Seriously, you called them a premade ... 2 people ...
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