Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,337
# 1 Combat supply changes
01-12-2014, 03:28 PM
So, did some testing on this, and honestly, I REALLY like it.

It spits out about 10 buffs roughly (was using combat supply 3 btw) over the course of it being out. But it isn't perfect. Namely...

1. It spits the buffs out really far.
2. The buffs tend to get stuck on every single little nook and cranny that might be around. This can sometimes lead to them being on spots that only Caitains/Ferasans can reach, IF even they can reach them at all. This also includes places that have hazards and the like.
3. The Quartermaster DOFF that reduces the CD on combat supply seems to be making (using a purple btw) the ability hit a 'global CD'.

That's the three big things I noticed so far. I'm not sure if the buffs can be picked up by NPCs (allied or enemy) or by players on opposing team in PvP. Would be nice to know for clarification.

Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 827
# 2
01-12-2014, 08:36 PM
Thank you very much for posting this, I've been asking all over for info on it.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,337
# 3
01-12-2014, 11:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by killdozer9211 View Post
Thank you very much for posting this, I've been asking all over for info on it.
Glad to help.

I'm annoyed at how far the buffs tend to fly. In a large, open area, like the Voth ground area, it isn't an issue at all. They fly out, you pick em up, move on.

But even a moderately tight space? Good luck with trying to get them. They are gonna be stuck everywhere and basically wasted.

I will say, when I was testing them, it was VERY fun to be running around with like 600 shields and almost 900 health on the ground, plus the other buffs it provides.

Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
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# 4
01-13-2014, 02:59 PM
Ok, a new day, and more tests:

In the PvE stuff I tried, it feels like no NPCs can pick them up. Probably for the best. I don't believe BOFFs can either.

In PvP though, any player, including those on the other team can pick them up. I have a feeling people will get frustrated by that really quickly. Your team obviously thats' fine, but I feel that we would soon see a slew of 'buff stealers'.

The buffs DO stack with other buffs that engineers can give themselves and others.

Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 466
# 5
01-17-2014, 06:32 PM
I've tuned the "spew" distance, the duration, and the magnitude of the buffs in a future patch. I think the Battlezone buff levels were a little nuts and were meant to compensate for the toughness of the Voth - that level of power shouldn't be available in every map. The new values are 20% Shield HP, 10% Hitpoints, 10% Damage, 20% RunSpeed+Dodge, and 20 Resistance (All). The new duration of the buffs is 60 seconds, which is still pretty reasonable.

We talked about changing the pickup behavior so that only teammates can pick up the buffs, but I actually think the ability is more interesting this way. You can use the Combat Supply as a decoy in a match, if you care to set it up right - luring in opponents for powerups while your team lies in wait or your nest of deployables sits around a corner.
Jeff "Adjudicator Hawk" Hamilton
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,890
# 6
01-17-2014, 07:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adjudicatorhawk View Post
I've tuned the "spew" distance, the duration, and the magnitude of the buffs in a future patch. I think the Battlezone buff levels were a little nuts and were meant to compensate for the toughness of the Voth - that level of power shouldn't be available in every map. The new values are 20% Shield HP, 10% Hitpoints, 10% Damage, 20% RunSpeed+Dodge, and 20 Resistance (All). The new duration of the buffs is 60 seconds, which is still pretty reasonable.

We talked about changing the pickup behavior so that only teammates can pick up the buffs, but I actually think the ability is more interesting this way. You can use the Combat Supply as a decoy in a match, if you care to set it up right - luring in opponents for powerups while your team lies in wait or your nest of deployables sits around a corner.
Thanks for the update Hawk, this should be a great new mechanic. Just one concern, are there any planned preventive measures to curb potential kit switching abuse? Example: A player uses combat supply, next they pick up the supply buffs, and finally they swap out to another kit with the supply buffs still active. Thanks again for all of the fine work you've put into this update.
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# 7
01-17-2014, 08:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adjudicatorhawk View Post
I've tuned the "spew" distance, the duration, and the magnitude of the buffs in a future patch. I think the Battlezone buff levels were a little nuts and were meant to compensate for the toughness of the Voth - that level of power shouldn't be available in every map. The new values are 20% Shield HP, 10% Hitpoints, 10% Damage, 20% RunSpeed+Dodge, and 20 Resistance (All). The new duration of the buffs is 60 seconds, which is still pretty reasonable.

We talked about changing the pickup behavior so that only teammates can pick up the buffs, but I actually think the ability is more interesting this way. You can use the Combat Supply as a decoy in a match, if you care to set it up right - luring in opponents for powerups while your team lies in wait or your nest of deployables sits around a corner.
Good work Hawk, I'm glad my testing was able to help.

Few things to mention:

1. The Quartermaster DOFF that affects the CD of Combat supply is making me hit a 'global CD' on the ability. Note that I am using a very rare version of the DOFF (specifically William Shakespeare). I feel one of those things needs to be adjusted, the DOFF, or the CD itself. Because if that goes to holodeck, it'd be pretty silly to use a DOFF slot on a DOFF that it just gonna make it hit a global CD anyways.

2. Gonna be honest, I feel like that might be a tad much on reducing them. I mean, don't misunderstand, they are a bit insane with the amount of 'death' I can cause with them atm. But I still feel they should be useful. *shrug* Maybe it's just me.

3. I understand wanting, in PvP, to let others be able to pick em up. But something I thought of was more larger PvE content, like Big Dig. That has multiple teams running around, and I was worried about greedy players just taking all your buffs.

4. Question: Am I right in thinking, at least for right now, there are two levels of buffs that can drop? Normal ones, and rarer, more powerful ones?

5. A request. If you are gonna tune down the strength of the buffs, maybe in return, more can pop out? So that way more of your teammates can get some usage out of them.

That's all I have for now, hope you reply, Hawk. Been glad to help out with this and continue to help out with more kit changes as time goes on.

PS:

Quote:
Originally Posted by adjudicatorhawk View Post
We will fix kit-swapping soon, but not as soon as Combat Supply changes happen. But when I say fix, I mean it will be very very gone.
AWESOME

Rihannsu
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,372
# 8
01-18-2014, 07:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimey2 View Post
1. It spits the buffs out really far.
Oh great, we are back in the SNES era ...

Really? "spewing buffs"? ... I do not accept this.
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Empire Veteran
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# 9
01-25-2014, 02:32 PM
So, got around to some more testing with it, and so far...like it.

The buffs are much more reasonable and not the insanity I was getting the other day when I was testing them. They are still useful of course, and in fact Combat Supply in general will be worthwhile. It's also great they aren't thrown out so damn far, and are getting stuck on stuff a lot less.

Now, that isn't so say I don't have gripes still.

1. The Damage Resistance buff (on your health, not the shield one) as I thought feels very weak. It really made very very little reliable and useful difference the entire time I was testing. Might as well have not been there at all for all the good (or lack there of) it did.

2. Buffs feel like they don't last long enough. Not really because I feel 60 seconds is too short, but because if you are standing around waiting on the rest of the Combat Supply you are possibly gonna be wasting time while you wait around for them. Sure you can just not pick them up, but even so, still gonna be waiting around. And sometimes you may pick one up without realizing or someone else might, etc.

I just seemed to notice I'd get like 30-45 seconds at best of actually 'usable' time with these. If they lasted a bit longer, 75-90 seconds, that'd keep them reasonable still, while giving a good amount of uptime.



Aside from those two things, I feel Combat Supply is a good, worthwhile ability now. I probably won't test it anymore, unless there is some other big enough change to warrant it. Overall, good work with making it useful.

Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,583
# 10
01-25-2014, 04:35 PM
I just tested the combat supply, without DOFFs, on the Voth battlezone.

-I don't like the way the buffs are given. You have to run and catch them, and you loose a lot of time/DPS doing so. If you are moving quickly (like in most ground STF), it makes the skill useless, as you will already be moving when the buffs will start appearing.
Also, I took several time the same buffs, not knowing if I already picked it.

-Long CD. 1m30s without DOFF. I honestly don't know with DOFF, but right now, I feel it's too much without them. Also, it doesn't last long.

-While the DPS buff, speed buff and the heal buff seems ok, the resistance buff was not powerful enough.

-The BOFF won't pick the buffs, making the skill a lot less desirable in solo pve content (FE for example), as the player will be the only one buffed. It make little sense, IMO, since the kits that have combat supply are team oriented (quick fix, equipment diagnostics, shield recharge...).


I think combat supply should buff everyone in the area (except for hostile NPCs), not giving all the buff once, but one after the other, for example every second. Just like it doesn't spawn all buffs at once. Have a small shield/aura/whatever to show that to everyone. That wouldn't help when moving fast, but it would be useful when you are "camping" (like the turret nest).
You can also have it buff the enemies in pvp.
Or, you could have buffs given to those who use the combat supply, like the hypos before the revamp. That way it would be more interesting when you need to move fast.

The way it is now, sending buff in the air, is not efficient enough to make the skill (and the kits) interesting enough. I know I won't drop my enemy neutralization kit and its powerful mines or my fabrication specialist and my turret nest for this. However, if it was buffing every allies in the area, that would be interesting enough.
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