Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 583
# 131
05-18-2013, 04:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by theindefatigable View Post
Please just...go sign up and get shipped off to Afghanistan. Oh, wait, I wouldn't want to inflict your kind on the rest of the soldiers there OR the Afghans. I'd settle for you just keeping your post count at 4.

As for the mission, I did find it to be a very brilliant, but disturbing, episode. I do wish some further options were given that permitted the player to avoid some of the more brutal actions required in the mission. If that would be difficult to implement or destructive to the storyline, a disclaimer of sorts and option to skip or to skip PARTS of the mission would be a great idea. In Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2, I believe, there was a controversial mission that involved permitting (and possibly joining in with) a terrorist to shoot civilians at an airport. The game included a disclaimer and option to skip. Not a bad idea here, I think.
They were being intentionally controversial though. This mission is honestly pretty meek by comparison.
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Captain
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 844
# 132
05-18-2013, 05:05 AM
I liked the mission why?

It makes you really hate sela and the tal shiar they force you to do things against your will

they surgicly (I cant spell today ) do something to your head which makes it impossible to resist what they instruct you to do.

by the end of mind game your so pissed off at hakeev you want to hack his other eye out with a hatchet and take a .....nvm you get the point.

Mind games shows just how far sela and the tal shiar will go to hurt someone or get what they want.

By the end you understand why you have to stop them why the tal shiar and hakeev MUST be stopped by any and all means possible.

mind games sets the tone for the rest of the story and if you skip it your missing out on a big portion of the whys and what fors.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,074
# 133
05-18-2013, 03:11 PM
Well, jymoward, setting the perk aside, I - well, I can't really say I enjoyed the mission, but it did wonders for immersion. It made the rest of the game feel more important, by showing me (rather than simply telling me) exactly why the Empire is collapsing, and how horrible some of the things boiling up out of the cracks are. Now I'm fighting not just because the Tal Shiar attacked my world, or because they tried to kill Tovan's old girlfriend, or because my new Fed buddies don't like them - I'm fighting them because they have no mnhei'sahe, and have revealed themselves as the very worst monsters the Rihannsu have created to date. They must be stopped!

YMMV, obviously...
-------------------------------------------

"You're as crazy as the people on Twitter!" - Samuel L. Jackson
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 34
# 134
05-18-2013, 07:38 PM
Personally, I did not enjoy the mission in the traditional sense, but it does a fantastic job in doing what it was made to do. The entire mission is designed to show you the insanity and the evil being carried out by the Tal Shiar and the remains of the Romulan Empire. It does a great job conveying emotion and evoking an emotional response in the player. It isn't designed to be fun. It's designed to be disturbing. It's there to show you the inhumanity of the enemy and to make them more than just a generic cliche bad guy in a video game.

I can understand why some people would find this mission to be disturbing, even obscene. However, it is important to remember that in this mission you are not acting out your own will. The entire point is that you have no choice. You can fight, but you won't succeed. It makes you just as much of a victim as the people and creatures that you are forced to harm. And in that, it reaches its goal of creating that emotional response. It may not be pretty, but the mission itself serves a vital purpose in the entire story line. As I said before, it escalates Hakeev, Sela, and the Tal Shiar from cliche bad guys to an emotionally impactful group.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 998
# 135
05-18-2013, 10:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by messahla View Post
I liked the mission why?

It makes you really hate sela and the tal shiar they force you to do things against your will

they surgicly (I cant spell today ) do something to your head which makes it impossible to resist what they instruct you to do.

by the end of mind game your so pissed off at hakeev you want to hack his other eye out with a hatchet and take a .....nvm you get the point.

Mind games shows just how far sela and the tal shiar will go to hurt someone or get what they want.

By the end you understand why you have to stop them why the tal shiar and hakeev MUST be stopped by any and all means possible.

mind games sets the tone for the rest of the story and if you skip it your missing out on a big portion of the whys and what fors.
yeah this is what i was tryign to say you just did it better then i could
Rihannsu
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 258
# 136
05-18-2013, 10:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daan2006 View Post
I can say first hand you ppl where a small group paladins/death knights are the 2 most over played classes in the game
Well Paladins are only a tangent to this conversation since they don't require you to play a back story that involves cold blooded murder.

However, I agree that people like me were a definite minority.

Most gamers do not think of their actions in a game being reflective of a genuine moral choice. Some gamers do think of it being reflective of a genuine moral choice, but revel in choosing something "evil" or "taboo." Witness the number of people who enjoy playing a Dark Brotherhood assassin in Skyrim, for example.

People like myself who see it as both reflective of a moral choice and who aren't attracted to that particular choice are the minority, for sure.

My point was simply that this is something that comes up from time to time in MMOs, and will probably come up again, as long as "story" is considered important to players and developers.

To the credit of the devs, a player CAN skip this mission if they want to, plus, if they are armed with foreknowledge, they can take comfort in the fact that even within the game universe, the events are not considered to have actually happened.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,256
# 137
05-18-2013, 11:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxinvictus View Post
Well Paladins are only a tangent to this conversation since they don't require you to play a back story that involves cold blooded murder.
You've never seen me play a Paladin. One God, One Faith, all else is Sin. And I purge the world of all non-believers. Being a Paladin means having a license to drown the world in blood.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,074
# 138
05-18-2013, 11:13 PM
There are actually two way to approach that moment in the Death Knight backstory. If you wait long enough, your friend actually asks you to do it - because he/she trusts you to kill quickly, and with minimum pain. It's more a mercy killing by that point; the other option would be to leave your friend to the nonexistent mercies of the Lich King's inquisitors, after all.

After getting to the end of "Installation 18", I finally realized what good writing was involved in "Mindgames". In the secret Tal Shiar installation, you find a lab that is being used for indoctrination techniques similar to what you experienced.

My character's experiences in "Mindgames" had struck me more deeply than I had realized. I was angry. I kept looking for the option that would let me burn that installation to the ground and sow salt over its ashes. I wanted to see every sub-Romulan involved executed.

I can't recall the last time a video game did that to me...
-------------------------------------------

"You're as crazy as the people on Twitter!" - Samuel L. Jackson
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,256
# 139
05-18-2013, 11:17 PM
I approve of anything that motivates people to think of their characters as more than just pixels on a screen and identify with their characters. It makes them better players (RP-wise).
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 955
# 140
05-19-2013, 08:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonsills View Post
There are actually two way to approach that moment in the Death Knight backstory. If you wait long enough, your friend actually asks you to do it - because he/she trusts you to kill quickly, and with minimum pain. It's more a mercy killing by that point; the other option would be to leave your friend to the nonexistent mercies of the Lich King's inquisitors, after all.

After getting to the end of "Installation 18", I finally realized what good writing was involved in "Mindgames". In the secret Tal Shiar installation, you find a lab that is being used for indoctrination techniques similar to what you experienced.

My character's experiences in "Mindgames" had struck me more deeply than I had realized. I was angry. I kept looking for the option that would let me burn that installation to the ground and sow salt over its ashes. I wanted to see every sub-Romulan involved executed.

I can't recall the last time a video game did that to me...
"Mind Games" is just a piece of the entire story. It's a part of the building up to the climax in "Cutting the Cord". When I first did the Romulan version of the "Cutting the Cord" I knew there would be some customiation for Romulans. But I didn't really have any expectations. I thought hte climax in the last cutscene with Hakeev would play out as I knew it. But how the scene ended truely surprised me and shocked me a bit. After my surprise and some reflectection, that scene ended exactly as I wanted it too. The writing of the entire series of arcs did have a profound impact on me as well. I just hadn't realized how much until the climax.

Last edited by lordfuzun; 05-19-2013 at 09:02 AM.
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