Rihannsu
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 104
# 161
05-18-2013, 09:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoggymack22 View Post
Well besides the fact that all the Romulan Battlecruisers currently have 5 or 5.5 turn rates? The Ha'Apax, Haakona and the D'Deridex. Or just the whole flavor that all the Romulan ships turn slower than their Klignon and Federation foils? As if that's an intentional part of their flavor?

Nah, couldn't be that.
What flavour justifys that Romulan ships turn slower than Klingon or Federation equivalents?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 179
# 162
05-18-2013, 09:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by commandersalvek View Post
What flavour justifys that Romulan ships turn slower than Klingon or Federation equivalents?
When you have the best cloaking technology in the galaxy why do you need to be nimble?

Klingon's have to be nimble because they're all about attacking head-on.
Federation is the jack-of-all-trades sort, so they have to be somewhat dexterous.
Romulan's don't need to be nimble because they could appear anywhere. Even worse: they could have reinforcements you only know about right before taking all their opening salvo's at once.

Game mechanics don't exactly match up with this unfortunately. I'd love to see some 'Oh crap, that's no D'Deridex, that's three D'Deridex' moments in STO.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 728
# 163
05-18-2013, 09:42 PM
Quote:
Fact is, those many testers you speak of are PvErs, and well, yeah, everything is effective in pve. You can do an ESTF in an NX...or a shuttle.
Oh yeah? Well, I can do EST without turning my computer on! I simulate doing ISE solo without any ship at all! With a graphing calculator! While PVPing as an entire team on five different computers and beating all the best players in the game by myself! While dead!

People just can't resist the bragging, can they? Even when it doesn't make sense Yeah, you can beat an ESTF with four people flying real ships and one flying a shuttle or whatever. That's no different than beating it with just four people, which happens all the time because people's drop. Which I'm sure is something the missions are built with in mind. Sheesh.

I'm going to fly the ship. If it gets a turn rate increase, that's super. If not, I'll learn to deal, just like everyone else who flies it.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,547
# 164
05-18-2013, 10:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by theodrim View Post
Fine there, too, the metagame just hasn't caught up to it yet.

Just because it has battle cloak doesn't mean it should be flown like a BoP, just because it has DHC's doesn't mean it should be flown like an escort, and just because it has a cruiser's hull and turn rate doesn't mean it should be flown like one of those either.
meta game hasn't caught up yet? the metagames moves at the speed of changes, and is perfectly aligned with what actually effective. all these ways you mentain its not supposed to be flown, your not leaving it a single effective way it can be flown.

people that are inexperienced, and i guess kinda humble about it, are ignorant enough to assume that theres a way for everything that the masses complain about to be flown just fine. it isn't the case, and the more experience and knowledge you have, the less likely you are to blurt out oh thats fine, you all just need to change your play style, its you not the ship. to me, thats a tell. of someone who is not qualified to make any sort of judgement call about any of that.

the margins for everything that actually works are very thin. some stat issues can be forgiven because they are made up something else. some stats can be lower then average without making a ship nonviable. sometimes theres an opportunity cost to fix a ships issues so that it can perform at a basic level, but that compensation has massive damning opportunity costs that make it wholly inferior to other options. other stats, if they are simply too low, ruin a ship utterly, so its not even possible to make it ok.

the d'deridex and bortas are good examples of that last description. how well the bortas sold and how often it is used is in the history books now. theres no debating that that ship was a failure. of sure, you can pull off an impressive alpha stirke, same thing with the galaxy X. but guess what? those 1 trick ponies are a joke, and get laughed out of any team play, they serve no purpose, other then hunting loaners in cap and holds. the d'deridex will be joining those ranks as it is. of the 3, it will be the best for its ability to actually position for a decloak 10 times better then those other 2, but beyond that, it will still be a terrible ship. spending the vast majority of its time not able to do anything, wile any other war bird in its place can be fighting well the entire time.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,075
# 165
05-18-2013, 11:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by commandersalvek View Post
What flavour justifys that Romulan ships turn slower than Klingon or Federation equivalents?
Cinnamon.

Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 370
# 166
05-19-2013, 02:42 AM
The D'deridex is underperforming at Captain rank and it's unlikely to get better at max. It's very much like the Galaxy-Enterprise.

You don't want to fly that in PvP, not even in a team based around compensating its shortcoming.

On Tribble people could/can test it. The Mogai you get before an the Ha'feh you get after the D'deridex totally trash it, no matter what setup you try.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,233
# 167
05-19-2013, 03:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sopwithsnipe View Post
Cinnamon.

I thought they were going with mint for LoR...
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,032
# 168
05-19-2013, 03:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by commandersalvek View Post
What flavour justifys that Romulan ships turn slower than Klingon or Federation equivalents?
From the shows we know that small ships with a hingh poer warpcore are harder to hide under cloak (DS9: "The Search").
And the Romulan ships pretty much dwarf their counterparts.
The Mogai is actually the size of the Negh'var for example.
So it seems pretty simple: Klingons build a good fighting platform and slap a cloak on.
The Romulans build their ships around their cloaking devices.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 405
# 169
05-19-2013, 06:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaanithegreen View Post
Oh yeah? Well, I can do EST without turning my computer on! I simulate doing ISE solo without any ship at all! With a graphing calculator! While PVPing as an entire team on five different computers and beating all the best players in the game by myself! While dead!

People just can't resist the bragging, can they? Even when it doesn't make sense Yeah, you can beat an ESTF with four people flying real ships and one flying a shuttle or whatever. That's no different than beating it with just four people, which happens all the time because people's drop. Which I'm sure is something the missions are built with in mind. Sheesh.

I'm going to fly the ship. If it gets a turn rate increase, that's super. If not, I'll learn to deal, just like everyone else who flies it.
It is not really bragging. It is stating a fact that ESTFs aren't hard.

For months when I started playing, I had heard how they were the end game, hardest thing to do, sort of thing. I was actually a little intimidated to actually try one. I watched videos of people doing them, and it seemed you needed endless amounts of cooperation to even attempt them.

Then I tried one,

I had spent months and months tweaking my build and ships for pvp. It turns out that a pvp build is WAY overkill for ESTFs.

You think its bragging, but honestly its not. I have done hundreds of them by now and I can count on one hand the amount of people who actually know how to use their ship.

People who die to the gate, or a tac cube or even a standard cube just astound me. Dieing to one once a map or so is no big deal, as we all make mistakes. But the people who die 4, 5, 6 times in one STF....it happens every time I play one and I can't comprehend why.

But then I see comments in threads like this (not necessarily yours) where people are saying this ship's turn is fine, and it all makes sense. The vast majority of people are simply content with a fraction of their potential.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,579
# 170
05-19-2013, 09:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
I thought they were going with mint for LoR...
And that's why Romulan ships don't turn quickly. They're mint, not cinnamon.
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