Lieutenant
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 67
# 11
05-19-2013, 12:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Er, piloting. Already said that.
You do know there's a reason why the common team comp is 2 Tac and 3 Sci, right?
I was talking about 1vs1 pvp as mentioned earlier. Now, with the 5vs5 pvp you still didn't include Eng, but rather Tac and Sci which only confirms my statement of Eng class being useless and unnecessary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post

If you're coming from the premise that the Tac will win...and...the Tac does not win...

...just food for thought.

Still say the better pilot will win. Doesn't mean that the a draw can't happen. Just means that the two folks were well matched enough for there not to be a winner.
With an Eng cruiser and a Tac escort, it's either a draw or a Tac win. There is no third option..

Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
So wait...lol, did you just say that the Tacs have no skills...it's just because of those five abilities that they win?
Exactly. The only skills that matter are the ability to calculate DPS and optimization of the space gear. As far as piloting through 3D space goes, it is marginal..

Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post

Um, yeah - piloting skills do matter. Heck, how do you think a fight between two Tacs plays out? Just lucky shots? Or...maybe the better skilled pilot?
If they both know what they are doing it's mostly a draw. Why? Because of all the plethora of the healing skills that BOFF and gear have. If healing was an eng specialty, then eng has no specialty left anymore..

Since cruisers can be only punching bags and escorts are toothless for an eng capt, that doesn't leave us much to work with..

Engies must get an update which would completely alter their skills and make them more desirable for players.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 67
# 12
05-19-2013, 12:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Folks are aware of the changes (that if nothing changes between now and Tuesday) will be going live with LoR, right?

Change to GDF? New career-restricted traits?

edit: They don't change the team synergy issue, but there are changes taking place.
What synergy are you talking about? What team?

It's everyone for themselves, always has been, all the rest is just bollocks.

In 1vs1 synergy means squat and in 5vs5 no one needs an eng anyway so new career-restricted traits could actually BRING engies back to the game, thus optimizing it as well.

The alternative is just tac-escort game and RPG (imagining yourself being a Picard AKA being a nutcase). The game is unbalanced and it needs balance ASAP!
Lieutenant
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 67
# 13
05-19-2013, 12:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drkfrontiers View Post
I agree and disagree with alot that has been said in this thread thus far.

While I believe that engineers do fulfill a role, I also agree that that role has been largely negated by the power creep of the remaining classes.

Hmnnn ... what to do .. what to do.

Here's an idea.

Engineers build things, manage ships powers and warp engines and fix things right?

So why not make them good at that?

Why not allow ONLY the engineer class the following.

Enhanced turret deployments on the battlefield. Make these as resilient as the Ac. Assimilators, and have them pack more of a punch. Full blown Torp Spread II & III platforms, and Spinal Lance Turrets

Allow ONLY engineers the ability to push power levels into overdrive - give them a flat out power bonus based on their ship type. So if a science officer is in any given ship for example, they maximum power level is 125, as if tactical. Engineers have 135+. Its in line with everything about Star Trek. "I'm giving it all she's got capt'n!"

Allow engineers abilities that play an equally important role as SNB or Attack Patterns. Allow Miracle Worker to be cast on an ally which will counter SNB. That way engineers can once again be the "fix-its" on the battlefield.

Its time for engineers to shine!
Great ideas!

I hope someone from the Cryptic is reading this.

Never liked the new Leonard Hofstadter Star Trek style anyway..Why are people trying to make Star Wars out of the Star Trek?

Build a giant romulan Death Star and get on with it.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,159
# 14
05-19-2013, 12:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dam999 View Post
I was talking about 1vs1 pvp as mentioned earlier. Now, with the 5vs5 pvp you still didn't include Eng, but rather Tac and Sci which only confirms my statement of Eng class being useless and unnecessary.
Nope. You declared a 1v1 situation. Eng vs. Tac. I disagreed with that. That's separate from my agreeing with folks that the Eng lacks team synergy in comparison to a Tac or a Sci. Two different things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dam999 View Post
With an Eng cruiser and a Tac escort, it's either a draw or a Tac win. There is no third option..
Why is the Eng in a Cruiser? Read your thread title: Engineer in a PVP escort

Quote:
Originally Posted by dam999 View Post
Exactly. The only skills that matter are the ability to calculate DPS and optimization of the space gear. As far as piloting through 3D space goes, it is marginal..
Would you be horribly offended if I laughed until I wet myself at that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dam999 View Post
If they both know what they are doing it's mostly a draw. Why? Because of all the plethora of the healing skills that BOFF and gear have. If healing was an eng specialty, then eng has no specialty left anymore..
There are five abilities that each has that adds flavor to the roles and classes a player chooses to play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dam999 View Post
Since cruisers can be only punching bags and escorts are toothless for an eng capt, that doesn't leave us much to work with..
You may need to reevaluate your position on that...just saying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dam999 View Post
Engies must get an update which would completely alter their skills and make them more desirable for players.
Different players desire different things.

I have no issue with my Engineers (have four of them - half of my toons) in solo PvE, group PvE, solo PvP, PUGland PvP, and even Ker'rat...but yeah, I'm not going to be looking to play them in organized matches. They lack that kind of team synergy for PvP.
Vice Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer
V.S.S. Oracle, D'Kyr-class Science Vessel
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,159
# 15
05-19-2013, 12:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dam999 View Post
What synergy are you talking about? What team?
The place where Engineers are actually lacking. They lack team synergy for a 5-man PvP team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dam999 View Post
It's everyone for themselves, always has been, all the rest is just bollocks.
Then you should be rocking and rolling with your Engineer in that environment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dam999 View Post
In 1vs1 synergy means squat and in 5vs5 no one needs an eng anyway so new career-restricted traits could actually BRING engies back to the game, thus optimizing it as well.
Well, um...obviously if it is a 1v1...there's nobody else to have synergy with...er...so uh...

The career restricted traits do nothing to help the Engineer with team synergy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dam999 View Post
The alternative is just tac-escort game and RPG (imagining yourself being a Picard AKA being a nutcase). The game is unbalanced and it needs balance ASAP!
The game is not going to be balanced ASAP...well, unless you mean As Slowly As Possible.
Vice Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer
V.S.S. Oracle, D'Kyr-class Science Vessel
Lieutenant
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 67
# 16
05-19-2013, 01:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Nope. You declared a 1v1 situation. Eng vs. Tac. I disagreed with that. That's separate from my agreeing with folks that the Eng lacks team synergy in comparison to a Tac or a Sci. Two different things.
When you use sci and tac capt as a perfect example of synergy, thus tendentiously excluding engies, it is only logical to conclude that engies have no business in PVP in general, team or otherwise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post


Why is the Eng in a Cruiser? Read your thread title: Engineer in a PVP escort
The doctrine was to have tac captains in an escort and engies in a cruiser. I took two school examples and showed that even when an engie is in his "designated" vessel, he still can't win. He can pilot an escort as well, sure, but with the same conclusion at the end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post

Would you be horribly offended if I laughed until I wet myself at that?
If you would be a woman I would be flattered, but now I am just concerned..

Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post


There are five abilities that each has that adds flavor to the roles and classes a player chooses to play.
There is a flavor of victory and loss. Unless you enjoy in STFs or redoing missions like a 12 yo playing WoW, you can't actually win against a tac escort, unless the one is being piloted by a Rain man..


Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post

You may need to reevaluate your position on that...just saying.
My position on that is very clear and always has been. Cryptic needs to balance the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Different players desire different things.
True, some like to play just for the sake of playing, but others don't like when odds are not in their favour and when others are clearly favourized over the rest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post

I have no issue with my Engineers but yeah, I'm not going to be looking to play them in organized matches. They lack that kind of team synergy for PvP.
Do they now..
Lieutenant
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 67
# 17
05-19-2013, 01:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
The place where Engineers are actually lacking. They lack team synergy for a 5-man PvP team.
They lack much more..but 5-man PvP team is just as bad for them as anything else..

Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Then you should be rocking and rolling with your Engineer in that environment.
Yeah, I can heal myself and try to bore an escort to death in hope that he would forfeit the game..

Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
The career restricted traits do nothing to help the Engineer with team synergy.
With the current game setup? Absolutely..


Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post

The game is not going to be balanced ASAP...well, unless you mean As Slowly As Possible.
Why not, Cryptic doesn't like money?
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,159
# 18
05-19-2013, 01:07 PM
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/fo...play.php?f=351
Vice Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer
V.S.S. Oracle, D'Kyr-class Science Vessel
Lieutenant
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 67
# 19
05-19-2013, 01:10 PM
No one started playing STO for a captain whose cheeks tremble when he yells on his crew (Sisko) and some poor excuse for a stationary scenery setup (DS9) that eventually hatched a "Defiant". So we can see some flying instead of looking at Quark selling air to fishes. That's what Defiant is, nothing more. A way to compensate for the lack of "exploring strange new worlds".

We all started playing because of Picard or some Janeway. There might even be fans of Kirk and his space orgies, but who gives a squat about a Defiant lol..
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,799
# 20
05-19-2013, 01:11 PM
OP has a point. Engi has no role whatsoever in pvp. Not sure why some of us seem to be ok with that.

As far as 1v1s go... ya lets all be honest with the current game we have the chances of an engi winning a 1v1 are going to be very low. If they do get kills its going to be with builds very very high on the gimick factor.

Engi needs to be given some team synergy of some kind... frankly myself I could care less if that gives them any advantage in 1v1s as I don't consider that the games pvp mode.

I would like to see the engi self tank reduced a bit... and have some team engi style debuffs replace some of them. I think its time for engi to find a place on a premade... a role in a pug match... and a reason for me to bother going and getting rep on my engi toons.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
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