Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,086
# 31
05-19-2013, 02:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dam999 View Post
The Breen Chel Grett Warship is an Admiral (Tier 5) starship with features comparable to Klingon Battle Cruisers. This ship is available to both Federation and KDF players.
It's an Escort. Even has the +10% Escort Bonus Defense.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,086
# 32
05-19-2013, 02:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
Where is the gimmick factor... oh I don't know the plasma infusers. lol
That one is corrected come tommorow anyway... not that the omega torp burns where really hurting anyone that much anyway.
Don't tell drunk, but I'm one of the people that has been arguing for some time for the Plasma Infusers to work like other energy Tac consoles. Course, when they also made the changes to the Embassy [Pla]...yeah, I argued against that heavily. Wait, he knows that already...we've argued, er discussed, it in the past.

BTW, my KDF main (that guy's my Fed main) is an Eng in a JHEC with Plasma Torps/Mines and Ambis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
You can't honestly argue that a Engi Scort is really on par with Tac or Sci scorts. They just aren't.
I wouldn't put them on par with Sciscorts, no. But I would not even put Tacscorts on par with Sciscorts. Bill Nye's always got his Bag o' Durty Tricks.

Remember, I'm not talking PvE. I'm not talking team PvP. I'm talking a duel. The Tac buffs up...it's no different than if it was Tac vs. Tac - are you going to sit in the other Tac's arcs? No, you're not. It's going to come down to skill.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,146
# 33
05-19-2013, 02:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
I'm talking a duel. The Tac buffs up...it's no different than if it was Tac vs. Tac - are you going to sit in the other Tac's arcs? No, you're not. It's going to come down to skill.
if that's your position, then you're also stuck arguing that cruisers are balanced too

Three copies of the exact same Patrol Escort, with Tac, Sci, and Engi capts. Tac has APA and FOMM buffs that add to the BOFF abilities and break the target in half. Sci has SN debuff and SS buff that stacks to the BOFF abilities. Engi has nothing except incidental buffs that come from boosting weapon power.

Hell my engi patrol escort can peg all four power meters full green. Do you think it helps me win anything?
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,086
# 34
05-19-2013, 02:39 PM
This snippet of the thread bugs me...

Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
So wait...lol, did you just say that the Tacs have no skills...it's just because of those five abilities that they win?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dam999 View Post
Exactly. The only skills that matter are the ability to calculate DPS and optimization of the space gear. As far as piloting through 3D space goes, it is marginal..
...it really bugs me.

As far as piloting through 3D space goes, it is marginal..

It's just mind-boggling.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,086
# 35
05-19-2013, 02:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ursusmorologus View Post
if that's your position, then you're also stuck arguing that cruisers are balanced too
Why? Cruiser vs. Science Vessel vs. Escort is an entirely different discussion that involves far more than just the five innate abilities of the Careers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ursusmorologus View Post
Three copies of the exact same Patrol Escort, with Tac, Sci, and Engi capts. Tac has APA and FOMM buffs that add to the BOFF abilities and break the target in half. Sci has SN debuff and SS buff that stacks to the BOFF abilities. Engi has nothing except incidental buffs that come from boosting weapon power.
Let's look at those abilities, eh?

APA...30s buff with a 2m CD that runs concurrently...so it is 1m30s after the 30s duration that it can be used again. Provides +Dmg, +CrtH, +CrtD, and +Turn. Awesome buff! Still need to hit the target for any of it to matter.

FOMM...cleared by TT. It's there. It's not there. Hrmm...

Not going to compare the Sci, because I've already put them at the top of the food chain with their Career abilities.

The Eng, eh? The Eng? What does the Eng have that might be helpful in a duel...a 1v1 match, eh? Hrmmm, let's see - the Eng is terribad for groups because they're so damn selfish. What could they possibly have for a 1v1...hrmmmm...what could they have?

Well, first of all they don't have any abilities that are wasted if they can't hit the target. Heck, if anything - they even reduce the negative impact of missing. Next, they don't have any abilities that can be cleansed...since they're not trying to debuff the target. So uh...wow, it's like the Eng could actually get more out of their buffs than the Tac.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ursusmorologus View Post
Hell my engi patrol escort can peg all four power meters full green. Do you think it helps me win anything?
How are you flying it?
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Lieutenant
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 67
# 36
05-19-2013, 03:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ursusmorologus View Post
if that's your position, then you're also stuck arguing that cruisers are balanced too

Three copies of the exact same Patrol Escort, with Tac, Sci, and Engi capts. Tac has APA and FOMM buffs that add to the BOFF abilities and break the target in half. Sci has SN debuff and SS buff that stacks to the BOFF abilities. Engi has nothing except incidental buffs that come from boosting weapon power.

Hell my engi patrol escort can peg all four power meters full green. Do you think it helps me win anything?

He doesn't want to understand because he obviously lacks impartial judgement..

Engi has NOTHING that could even remotely compare with APA or FOMM..
Lieutenant
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 67
# 37
05-19-2013, 03:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Why? Cruiser vs. Science Vessel vs. Escort is an entirely different discussion that involves far more than just the five innate abilities of the Careers.



Let's look at those abilities, eh?

APA...30s buff with a 2m CD that runs concurrently...so it is 1m30s after the 30s duration that it can be used again. Provides +Dmg, +CrtH, +CrtD, and +Turn. Awesome buff! Still need to hit the target for any of it to matter.

FOMM...cleared by TT. It's there. It's not there. Hrmm...

Not going to compare the Sci, because I've already put them at the top of the food chain with their Career abilities.

The Eng, eh? The Eng? What does the Eng have that might be helpful in a duel...a 1v1 match, eh? Hrmmm, let's see - the Eng is terribad for groups because they're so damn selfish. What could they possibly have for a 1v1...hrmmmm...what could they have?

Well, first of all they don't have any abilities that are wasted if they can't hit the target. Heck, if anything - they even reduce the negative impact of missing. Next, they don't have any abilities that can be cleansed...since they're not trying to debuff the target. So uh...wow, it's like the Eng could actually get more out of their buffs than the Tac.
So your only argument is that it's better that eng doesn't have anything since if you miss your target then having offensive skills is a waste anyway? That's too sad to be funny honestly..

APA has CD of 1:30 min compared to Miracle worker - CD of 4 min, NI - 3 min, EF - 5 min..etc.

Last edited by dam999; 05-19-2013 at 03:08 PM. Reason: s
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,086
# 38
05-19-2013, 03:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dam999 View Post
He doesn't want to understand because he obviously lacks impartial judgement..
I fly Tac, Eng, and Sci.
I fly Fed and KDF.
I fly Cruisers, Escorts, and Science Vessels...as well as hybrids.

As I've mentioned wholeheartedly throughout the thread...the Eng lacks team synergy. I've agreed on that point in multiple threads discussing Engineers.

2 Tac/3 Sci or even 3 Tac/2 Sci.

You've got SNB created gaps...which won't last long...so you need the spike from Tac on the controlled target.

The Eng can't SNB.
The Eng can't spike that target.

The Eng doesn't fit in well with the team environment.

What about healing? Yeah, it's called crosshealing. You're going to have it from your Sci and even the Tac can help out there. The Eng isn't needed for that. The Eng doesn't have anything that boosts healing abilities for others...hull healing with EFleet, but yeah - folks prefer the shield healing from SFleet.

But you're not talking about a team thing...

...it just sounds like you need to learn to play.

Again...

As far as piloting through 3D space goes, it is marginal..

...is pathetic.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,533
# 39
05-19-2013, 03:10 PM
Well in fairness... fomm blows. Tac team means its a 5s and at most 10s skill before its cleared by anyone remotely not stupid. Its good for a 3-5s burst IF your smart about it and that is it.

Alpha is great yes.

Nuke is fantastic yes.

However neither Alpha nor Nuke or Fomm or Sensor scan or go down or anything else they have is the issue.

The issue is E fleet Shields... Rep bonuses... stacking shield resists... stacking defense buffs. Consoles that regen shields and hull for you... and about 20 other items and passives that make engi pointless.

Engi had a role at one time... and in my engi scort I killed tons of tacs... at one point I was even part of a fairly feared 5 man engi scort team. lol

The issue is all the creep that make it impossible to kill anyone with Nadion and or EPS transfer anymore... you can't simply load a APO 3 and a rapid fire and expect to even glance hull never mind expose it.

Everyone is to resilient... you can tank just as well with a tac or a sci... that is the real issue.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 67
# 40
05-19-2013, 03:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
I fly Tac, Eng, and Sci.
I fly Fed and KDF.
I fly Cruisers, Escorts, and Science Vessels...as well as hybrids.

As I've mentioned wholeheartedly throughout the thread...the Eng lacks team synergy. I've agreed on that point in multiple threads discussing Engineers.

2 Tac/3 Sci or even 3 Tac/2 Sci.

You've got SNB created gaps...which won't last long...so you need the spike from Tac on the controlled target.

The Eng can't SNB.
The Eng can't spike that target.

The Eng doesn't fit in well with the team environment.

What about healing? Yeah, it's called crosshealing. You're going to have it from your Sci and even the Tac can help out there. The Eng isn't needed for that. The Eng doesn't have anything that boosts healing abilities for others...hull healing with EFleet, but yeah - folks prefer the shield healing from SFleet.
So you understand that eng has nothing to look for in both teamwork pvp and 1vs1 pvp.

That's an improvement..

Now start to look for viable solutions..
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