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Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,429
# 11
05-20-2013, 10:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
all shields start out with a base of 75% resistance, and it doesn't cap there. highly buffed shield res results in mid 90% range of kinetic resist. its stupid as hell. BO doesn't have to deal with that crap, that 75% built in res needs to go.
Is there a source for that?

Because like I posted, even if you take off that 75% initially for the kinetic resist and then apply the shield cap to the remaining damage...you're still not going to get the OP's numbers.

That's with a 3-step process:
1) Remove bleedthrough.
2) Apply shield kinetic reduction/absorption.
3) Apply shield damage reduction.

8300 - 830 = 7470
7470 * 0.25 = 1867.5
1867.5 * X = 300
X = 83.9%

So something with a cap of 75% would have to be applying 83.9% additional damage reduction after the 75% initial kinetic reduction.

To get to the 96% damage reduction the OP was seeing with a 2-step process, shields would have to have an additional 128% damage reduction against kinetic after the 75% against kinetic. (1.28 * 0.75 to get 0.96).
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Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,429
# 12
05-20-2013, 11:00 AM
Are there any threads out there from where folks have done testing against buffed/non-buffed targets where they've incremented their consoles?

I'm wondering how hard those torps are hitting against non-cappped shield folks.

Whether the issue is actually originating when they hit or if the problem is when they're launched...as in, they're not actually doing the damage they're supposed to be doing - so the damage against the buffed target is far smaller than one would expect.

When it comes to torps, I don't run Quants. I run Trans and Plasma. Even with the Plasma which are going to have reduced damage because of the addition of the DoT damage, I haven't seen numbers that low. Yeah, they're crappy numbers...but nothing like that.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 264
# 13
05-20-2013, 11:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Are there any threads out there from where folks have done testing against buffed/non-buffed targets where they've incremented their consoles?

I'm wondering how hard those torps are hitting against non-cappped shield folks.

Whether the issue is actually originating when they hit or if the problem is when they're launched...as in, they're not actually doing the damage they're supposed to be doing - so the damage against the buffed target is far smaller than one would expect.

When it comes to torps, I don't run Quants. I run Trans and Plasma. Even with the Plasma which are going to have reduced damage because of the addition of the DoT damage, I haven't seen numbers that low. Yeah, they're crappy numbers...but nothing like that.
In PvE it's not so bad, but against buffed shields, yes I was doing 300-500 damage per torp. I saw it with my own eyes...

I only use quantums and I don't expect them to be one shot kills by any means, but seriously, the damage that they do against shields is pitiful. If this were real life, no one would produce quantum torpedoes, they would not even have been considered a viable weapon system.

With all of my buffs running I can break 1k damage to shields per torp.... How much do cannons do again? Then, after the cannons break shields, they do how much to hull? Does hull get an automatic 75% resistance to energy damage? Hmm... not balanced there according to my perceived logic of the gameplay mechanics, (torps vs hull and energy vs shields.)
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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# 14
05-20-2013, 11:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Is there a source for that?

Because like I posted, even if you take off that 75% initially for the kinetic resist and then apply the shield cap to the remaining damage...you're still not going to get the OP's numbers.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...&postcount=487

you can see it for your self with this. use it on npcs, and you will see their shield res based of a shield energy level of 50. the npcs will have at least 75% knetic res.

ive seen it display kinetic shield res in the 90s, on ships with 65-75% res on all the energy levels. with how shield res works, all the sources of res multiply against each other, and for kinetic, you always have .75 to multiply against too.
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Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 264
# 15
05-20-2013, 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...&postcount=487

you can see it for your self with this. use it on npcs, and you will see their shield res based of a shield energy level of 50. the npcs will have at least 75% knetic res.

ive seen it display kinetic shield res in the 90s, on ships with 65-75% res on all the energy levels. with how shield res works, all the sources of res multiply against each other, and for kinetic, you always have .75 to multiply against too.
God hates torp lovers?
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Posts: 6,757
# 16
05-20-2013, 11:15 AM
Is this not how shields are suppossed to resist kinetic damage as the technology that keeps those particles in space from ripping through a vessel while in flight?

I dont see the issue.
Roy Hatch (stryker) soldier, friend, and good man.
1945-2014
RIP
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 945
# 17
05-20-2013, 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
Is this not how shields are suppossed to resist kinetic damage as the technology that keeps those particles in space from ripping through a vessel while in flight?

I dont see the issue.
Actually, that's what the deflector dish does. Ships don't waste power on shields just to travel through space.
----
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Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 264
# 18
05-20-2013, 11:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
Is this not how shields are suppossed to resist kinetic damage as the technology that keeps those particles in space from ripping through a vessel while in flight?

I dont see the issue.

Yes, I thought so too, but then what of the gameplay balance vs cannons? If torps are supposed to be best vs hull, and cannons are supposed to be best vs shields and torpedoes are extremely weak vs shields and cannons are as good or better than torpedoes vs hull... => Torpedoes are then obviously inferior since cannons are better at taking down targets all together.

This, along with wanting to min/max, are the reasons that many players go for full cannon builds. A full Torpedo build is not nearly as viable, why is that?

When a weapon system begins with an inherent 75% reduction in damage, it becomes quite unattractive.

Perhaps there are some suggestions to improve torpedoes...

Decrease the initial damage reduction that shields provide.

Remove the damage reduction provided by shields and decrease overall torpedo damage to an acceptable level.

Increase the rate of fire of torpedoes.

IDK, it's my opinion that they could be buffed vs shields.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 270
# 19
05-20-2013, 11:33 AM
+1 for buffing torps
K'eg/T'lol/Dude/Yak
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# 20
05-20-2013, 11:39 AM
I see no issue or need to make shields less resistant to torpedoes or to buff torpedo damage at all.
Torpedoes do excellent damage to bare hull after the shields have been lowered by energy weapon attacks imo.

The only correction that should be made is that shields should protect against torpedoes based on thier strength at the time of the attack.
A sliver of shields barely in place should not offer full resistance to an attack.

On a side not I was under the impression that combat shields where a spinoff of the deflector technologiy that protects a ship while in space from high velocity impacts.
Roy Hatch (stryker) soldier, friend, and good man.
1945-2014
RIP
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