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Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 264
My ship is utilizing the Ferenghi console, 5x purple mk XII quantum torpedo consoles, and the 2 pc Adapted MACO set bonus.

My torps are listed to be doing ~8300 damage.

I fire them against shields and do about 300 damage.

That means my torpedoes are doing ~3-4% of their total damage.

wtf?

I belive that the logic is that torpedoes should be best vs hull and energy weapons are better vs shields.

But, wait, cannons are energy based weapons that are the king of dropping shields and taking out hull. Buffed cannon damage puts torpedoes to shame by several orders of magnitude.

Why does my very slow firing weapon get out damaged by a very fast spamming weapon? The logic is broken and thus so are the mechanics for torpedo damage.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 2
05-20-2013, 10:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedumb4eva View Post
Why does my very slow firing weapon get out damaged by a very fast spamming weapon?
The fact that you consider torpedoes slow firing is the first clue you really haven't looked at the big picture. Specialized torpedo boats are more than capable of sustaining torpedo fire at the torpedo GCD, and in many cases supporting that sustained torpedo fire with additional energy weapons.

Bottom line: players don't need to be capable of the one-shot ESTF torpedo of doom. Kinetic absorption is the single mechanic keeping that from occurring.
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 264
# 3
05-20-2013, 10:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
The fact that you consider torpedoes slow firing is the first clue you really haven't looked at the big picture. Specialized torpedo boats are more than capable of sustaining torpedo fire at the torpedo GCD, and in many cases supporting that sustained torpedo fire with additional energy weapons.

Bottom line: players don't need to be capable of the one-shot ESTF torpedo of doom. Kinetic absorption is the single mechanic keeping that from occurring.
I don't think it needs to be at that point, but I should not be doing a pitiful 3-4% of my listed damage to shields. Even a TSS I negates all of my torpedo damage to shields.

FYI, even with 3x Projectile DOFFs, guess what, there are times when the torps don't fire at the GCD.

I have 2x quantum 2x DHC and 1x DBB on my fore weapons.

When I try to damage spike a target that has any shields, virtually nothing happens and this should not be the case given my total investment towards torpedoes.

Look me up on Gateway to see.

Bottom Line: Players are capable of WTFpwning with Cannons, but Torpedoes are largely over-looked.

You claim that players should not be able to insta-kill others, but with cannons that is more than possible, therefore your logic is flawed since players can already insta-kill each other.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 134
# 4
05-20-2013, 11:09 AM
I'm a torpedo specialist. As much as the greedy side of me would love to see a torpedo damage boost, the reasonable side tells me how utterly, blitheringly overpowered that would be.

My current torpedo setup is capable of scoring multi-kills. As in, multiple klingon players destroyed with one spread salvo. It is my primary weapon system, 2 launchers fore, 2 aft, and I pack a DHC and an experimental Romulan beam array as my only energy weapons.

http://i.imgur.com/LV5VFJf.jpg

I fire one of those a second.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 45
# 5
05-20-2013, 11:31 AM
Out of curiosity, have you tried using Transphasics?

I've been tinkering with one, but unfortunately, I don't seem to be able to get it to perform like I think it should. Now, this could be due to my lack of end-game rep gear/lockbox/lobi items, but even with that... /shrugs

I'm running a Patrol Escort with the Breen space set, 3 Rapidfire Transphasics and a DHC in the nose (have thought about switching it to a DBB and utilize "Target Shields" or "Beam Overload), 1 Rapidfire Transphasic (or Breen Cluster), Borg Kinetic Beam, and Turret in the rear (again, thinking about switching the turret for a beam). Four Transphasic Tactical Consoles and the Assimilated Console. The most I seem to be able to get is around 484 DPS tooltip per torp, which considering the Breen set boosts Transphasic damage by 30% & the Tac consoles another 26% each (they're blue, unfortunately), I can get a whole lot more bang just by switching to the Jem'Hadar set w/ loading up on Polaron weapons.

Any tips?

Edit: Corrected DPS, also running 3 blue Projectile DOFFs -- I'm one of those poor space captains...

Last edited by gurriknak; 05-20-2013 at 12:01 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 6
05-20-2013, 12:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedumb4eva View Post
FYI, even with 3x Projectile DOFFs, guess what, there are times when the torps don't fire at the GCD.
There are also times when someone wins the lottery. It doesn't mean it happens often.

Set up your ship correctly, and your torpedoes go downrange faster than a herd of cats chasing a squirrel with a laser pointer duct taped to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by freedumb4eva View Post
I have 2x quantum 2x DHC and 1x DBB on my fore weapons.

When I try to damage spike a target that has any shields, virtually nothing happens and this should not be the case given my total investment towards torpedoes.
If you can't shield break with 2 dhcs and a DBB, you're doing something very, very wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by freedumb4eva View Post
Bottom Line: Players are capable of WTFpwning with Cannons, but Torpedoes are largely over-looked.
Because torpedo boats take considerably more finesse and skill (and frankly, a good deal of luck) to use effectively. They're not the claymore mines of STO ship builds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by freedumb4eva View Post
You claim that players should not be able to insta-kill others, but with cannons that is more than possible, therefore your logic is flawed since players can already insta-kill each other.
You're hilariously confusing spike potential with one-shotting.

A single shot from a single DHC cannot, under any circumstances, kill another ship from 100% hull and shields.

With innate kinetic shield resist removed from the picture, correctly setup torpedo vessels can quite easily reach the kind of firepower necessary to kill, from full health and shields, another player in one shot, and if memory serves in regards to NPC health pools most non-battleship/dreadnought NPCs as well

Last edited by stirling191; 05-20-2013 at 12:27 PM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 485
# 7
05-20-2013, 12:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedumb4eva View Post
My ship is utilizing the Ferenghi console, 5x purple mk XII quantum torpedo consoles, and the 2 pc Adapted MACO set bonus.

My torps are listed to be doing ~8300 damage.

I fire them against shields and do about 300 damage.

That means my torpedoes are doing ~3-4% of their total damage.

wtf?

I belive that the logic is that torpedoes should be best vs hull and energy weapons are better vs shields.

But, wait, cannons are energy based weapons that are the king of dropping shields and taking out hull. Buffed cannon damage puts torpedoes to shame by several orders of magnitude.

Why does my very slow firing weapon get out damaged by a very fast spamming weapon? The logic is broken and thus so are the mechanics for torpedo damage.
I guesss a Tetryon Torpedo should be created to boost damage vs Shields.
We already have a torpedo that bypasses shields (Transphasic) so it makes sense.
NO to ARC...Keep it in Beta

RIP KDF 2014-07-17 Season 9.5
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 485
# 8
05-20-2013, 12:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gurriknak View Post
Out of curiosity, have you tried using Transphasics?

I've been tinkering with one, but unfortunately, I don't seem to be able to get it to perform like I think it should. Now, this could be due to my lack of end-game rep gear/lockbox/lobi items, but even with that... /shrugs

I'm running a Patrol Escort with the Breen space set, 3 Rapidfire Transphasics and a DHC in the nose (have thought about switching it to a DBB and utilize "Target Shields" or "Beam Overload), 1 Rapidfire Transphasic (or Breen Cluster), Borg Kinetic Beam, and Turret in the rear (again, thinking about switching the turret for a beam). Four Transphasic Tactical Consoles and the Assimilated Console. The most I seem to be able to get is around 484 DPS tooltip per torp, which considering the Breen set boosts Transphasic damage by 30% & the Tac consoles another 26% each (they're blue, unfortunately), I can get a whole lot more bang just by switching to the Jem'Hadar set w/ loading up on Polaron weapons.

Any tips?

Edit: Corrected DPS, also running 3 blue Projectile DOFFs -- I'm one of those poor space captains...
Try the Breen Cluster, RF Transphasic and a MKII Purple Transphasic up front.
I hope you're using the High Yield 3/Torpedo Spread 3 combo and try to get a little close.
If you're going to be using energy weapons, then Disruptors seems to be the better choice.
NO to ARC...Keep it in Beta

RIP KDF 2014-07-17 Season 9.5
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 264
# 9
05-20-2013, 01:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rezking View Post
Try the Breen Cluster, RF Transphasic and a MKII Purple Transphasic up front.
I hope you're using the High Yield 3/Torpedo Spread 3 combo and try to get a little close.
If you're going to be using energy weapons, then Disruptors seems to be the better choice.
Look me up on Gateway... Torpedoes are completely worthless against shields.

The reason that I have trouble getting through shields is because of high shields resistance on the target + all of my consoles are for quantum torps.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 10
05-20-2013, 02:50 PM
If you use a BO3 with your DBB combined with a CRF 1 and an APO3 with an APA3, you should be able to down a single shield facing. And timing is required against players. You need to unleash that hell combo right before your THY3 quantums hit. The APA3 + APO3 + THY3 will boost your torps up to around 25k base damage, with 60-70k crits. And you won't have to worry about shields since your BO3 will have taken out one of their shield facings. I would also recommend you use AP DBBs, for crit severity, since your APA3 will massively boost your crit, and the APA3 and APO3 will massively boost all your damage. If you still can't do it, I would add on GDF for an addition 25% base damage.

You will never consistently kill players in one or two salvos, but you can do it every few minutes. Based on what your build looked like, your problem is that you are relying on purely kinetic damage. That's foolish. You should have at least SOMETHING towards energy weapons, since kinetic is again only reliable against hull. And it's very easy to keep shields up against pure torp boats. I do it all the time in my Odyssey. It's almost laughable when I realize they have NOTHING boosting energy damage. After that, I just cycle EPtS3 and never have to worry about ever dying.

Remember, unless you are using transphasic torps, you will have issues with shields. Try the above combo and you are likely to have fewer problems.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
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