Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,628
# 241
05-20-2013, 07:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpgtx View Post
at this point just take every cruiser drop it;s total hull by 2,000 and bump the turn rate by 2

if a ship twice as large as the galaxy get's a turn of 7 the size argument is now dead
You want for me to start a list of what KDF battlecruisers would get into Fed Escort turn rate range?

Or the fact Science ships have high turn rates and weak hulls, problem with such proposals would be you either buffing Fed ships and then the KDF does its usual song and dance routine or you buff cruisers and then you have everyone who doesnt fly then complaining since no way your 2k hull loss is "balanced".

That leads to a option, buff everything and we back to square one with the exact same complains.
Former Star Trek Online Player
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,844
# 242
05-20-2013, 08:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoggymack22 View Post
Oh wow, the new lockboxes solve all your problems here people.

You get a Narada that turns faster.

AND, AND ... check it ... you get a new trait!



So there you go. Problem solved. Lockbox Lotto brings you the ship you want with the trait boost to boot!
nether of those ships are that great, and nether of them are the d'deridex. +10% to turn rate is nothing, a decent turn console gives at least +35%. 10% of 5 is .5, a bug would get 2 turn from it, and it cant have less then like 45 turn. so big deal
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,394
# 243
05-20-2013, 09:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
and nether of them are the d'deridex.
One of them is a borged up? borginated? borgified? Borg enhanced D'Deridex.

As msk5 already said:

Quote:
the Tal Shiar Adapted Battle Cruiser having a turn rate of 7 despite being a D'deridex with a bunch of borg crap bolted onto it
See? Problem solved. D'D with a 7 turn rate. Just have to get it via lockbox, which you know, is kind of what Cryptic pushes these days. So that's not too big a problem I don't think.

Quote:
+10% to turn rate is nothing, a decent turn console gives at least +35%.
It's a trait. That's in-line with what traits do.

Quote:
10% of 5 is .5,
Well the fleet D'D's turn rate is 5.5, so there is that extra oomph.

Quote:
a bug would get 2 turn from it, and it cant have less then like 45 turn. so big deal
Heh. I'm with you on that. I think everyone in this thread who wants to turn faster should fly a JHAS instead. Preaching to the choir mate. Preaching to the choir.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 354
# 244
05-20-2013, 10:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
meta game hasn't caught up yet? the metagames moves at the speed of changes, and is perfectly aligned with what actually effective. all these ways you mentain its not supposed to be flown, your not leaving it a single effective way it can be flown.
That would be because after three consecutive weeks of actually taking the time to explain these things, it's become abundantly clear to me players are wholly disinterested in actually learning to fly the thing in favor of whining about it, and posting further on the topic is a complete waste of my time. If you are interested, do a forum search for my posts about it.

Quote:
...some stat issues can be forgiven because they are made up something else.
Like the fact the D'Deridex can peak out at almost a 30 turn rate while having DHC's, over 200K EHP, and a halfway decent boff layout?

Quote:
...and get laughed out of any team play, they serve no purpose, other then hunting loaners in cap and holds. the d'deridex will be joining those ranks as it is. of the 3, it will be the best for its ability to actually position for a decloak 10 times better then those other 2, but beyond that, it will still be a terrible ship. spending the vast majority of its time not able to do anything, wile any other war bird in its place can be fighting well the entire time.
I guess we'll find this out for ourselves. I'm putting my money on the ship being a major dark horse.
Somebody getting uppity about canon? No problem! Just take a deep breath, and repeat after me:

Spock's Brain.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 405
# 245
05-20-2013, 10:53 PM
Well, the thing is its NOT a D'd with a 7 turn. The boff layout is completely different. I also don't see how adding a bunch of crap to the hull makes it turn faster, but meh, whatever.

I also don't understand your proposed solution to wanting a cruiser with a better turn rate. Essentially what you are saying then is "you want a cruiser that turns faster, fly a bug ship"? You fly a cruiser (well, at least I do) for the higher level engineer stations, yes? so how does going to a Lt and Ensign (most common layout for it) solve the issue?

If this is the entire basis for your resistance to the proposed changes, then its no wonder you disagree with them. By your rationale then, all cruisers should be at 5 turn because that is their play style? I guess I really don't understand your line of thinking in this regard.

There is a very stark difference between a JHAS and any given cruiser. You know this, I know this, everyone knows this. There is also a very stark difference between asking for a +2 turn rate and asking for it to handle like a bug ship.

I personally don't like flying escorts. They make me feel like I am cheating. I do realize that by not flying one, I am playing with a handicap, no doubt, but when you get above a certain amount of turn, it just starts to feel like hax.

I like cruisers. Not only are they iconic star trek ships, but they have a different play style than escorts. It happens to be a style that I enjoy in this game.

So no, telling me that I should just fly a JHAS instead of asking for a slight increase to a/any cruisers turn rate, is not really an acceptable solution.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 184
# 246
05-20-2013, 11:36 PM
I just think that their flimsy lorelol justification is well and truly gone, now. The D'deridex should get a turn rate buff. Will it? I dunno.

The game in general needs a good balance pass after a few months of LoR render all the data required to balance warbirds. I'm looking forward to flying the D'deridex on holodeck but having seen the Khnial in beta, I just don't get how it can possibly turn better, thing's easily three times the size of a standard D'deridex.
Commander
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 355
# 247
05-20-2013, 11:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by msk5 View Post
I just think that their flimsy lorelol justification is well and truly gone, now. The D'deridex should get a turn rate buff. Will it? I dunno.

The game in general needs a good balance pass after a few months of LoR render all the data required to balance warbirds. I'm looking forward to flying the D'deridex on holodeck but having seen the Khnial in beta, I just don't get how it can possibly turn better, thing's easily three times the size of a standard D'deridex.
There's more to the physics of how quickly something can turn than volume. Namely mass and how much force is applied to accelerate the object.

The size of an object (volume), does not necessarily correlate with its mass. An object can occupy more space but have less mass, and vice versa. Likewise, a more massive object could turn more quickly than a less massive object if the more massive object has more force available to accelerate it.

Not to take a side in the turn rate argument, but too many people are arguing based on the idea that volume alone should determine the turn rate, when that is not nearly the case.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,844
# 248
05-21-2013, 12:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by theodrim View Post
That would be because after three consecutive weeks of actually taking the time to explain these things, it's become abundantly clear to me players are wholly disinterested in actually learning to fly the thing in favor of whining about it, and posting further on the topic is a complete waste of my time. If you are interested, do a forum search for my posts about it.


Like the fact the D'Deridex can peak out at almost a 30 turn rate while having DHC's, over 200K EHP, and a halfway decent boff layout?


I guess we'll find this out for ourselves. I'm putting my money on the ship being a major dark horse.
theres nothing new under the sun. there is not this other way to learn to play something like this, if there was the galaxy X and bortas would be great ships, for years now. haveing a 30 turn rate wile cloaked does it no good wile its actually trying to dog fight something. and for a tac cruiser its missing a second LT eng that would allow it to easily use a 2 AtB build, the best way to make a tac cruiser effective.

ive been around the tac cruiser block, i came up with the 2 AtB cruiser builds, im not new at this. this ship will perform poorly, even in my hands.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,160
# 249
05-21-2013, 12:46 AM
You can run atb1 and atb2 on the D'D, I think I will try that.

Most cruisers aren't welcome into premade arena anyway unless its full heal build like recluse, oddy, or fleet corsair, so D'D won't be needed there unless premade trying whole new tactics around battlecloak.
Ensign
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 28
# 250
05-21-2013, 01:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
nether of those ships are that great, and nether of them are the d'deridex. +10% to turn rate is nothing, a decent turn console gives at least +35%. 10% of 5 is .5, a bug would get 2 turn from it, and it cant have less then like 45 turn. so big deal
You are missing the point. That 10% DOESNT take slot of console. Also reduce cooldown on EM by 10 sec. As Console? Meh........As SPACE TRAIT? WOW
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