Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 24
# 71
05-22-2013, 05:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dam999 View Post
Cryptic should seriously reconsider to make eng class more competitive in PVP.

The only way a tac captain can lose against an eng is if he is a ******. Otherwise, there is no chance that an eng cap has any chance of dealing the same amount of DPS as a tac one. With alpha + omega the numbers go ridiculously high plus all the other tac skills..Engineer class must have something to respond to both tac and sci cap skils. Most eng skills are completely and utterly useless. I've talked to many people and even though tac captains usually like the way it is, they still all agree that the eng class is almost unplayable if you are not into RPG star trek.

The game is not balanced and the only thing that counts is DPS in which the eng class is rather poor..Even sci class has better and more useful skills than engies..

The way I see it, Cryptic should either completely ignore the entire eng concept and concentrate all on science and tactical or do something already to improve the gaming experience with the eng character so that it becomes more than a punching bag.
I'm not entirely sure you've ever played an Engineer. If you have, and you have a well built ship with a good crew, DoFFs, Boffs, items, etc. then you should have no problem. Especially with the new "below 25% get miracle worker back for free" thing. Engineers in Escorts are extremely powerful, run full shields power or aux and pop EPS when you need weapons power. Not to mention the new set bonuses from some of the rommy gear and such. If you're having problems killing Tacs (the most squishy toons in the game) then quite frankly, lrn2play.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 67
# 72
05-22-2013, 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mekhtah View Post
I'm not entirely sure you've ever played an Engineer. If you have, and you have a well built ship with a good crew, DoFFs, Boffs, items, etc. then you should have no problem. Especially with the new "below 25% get miracle worker back for free" thing. Engineers in Escorts are extremely powerful, run full shields power or aux and pop EPS when you need weapons power. Not to mention the new set bonuses from some of the rommy gear and such. If you're having problems killing Tacs (the most squishy toons in the game) then quite frankly, lrn2play.
Killing a tac escort with an engineer cruiser is only possible if that escort is flown by a really really bad pilot, otherwise you can sustain damage, but can't output even remotely enough to destroy an escort..With elite shields, TSS, EPtS, RSP etc. one would have to be extremely "limited" to get destroyed by a slow turning beam boat flown by an engie whose best offensive skill is APOIII..which is insignificant compared to APA..

Now, if an engineer pilot wants some power, he needs to fly an escort. Good turn and DHCs (or DCs for increasing the proc chance) give some basic damage with which it would be achievable to kill someone in pvp. An escort pilot flying with Reg shields is either dumb or just dumb. So most opt with Res or Cov. Increasing shields power doesn't do much to regenerate those shields and with the newest update it even
"regenerates" on the lowest possible level (25). Putting power to Aux and Shields in an escort and seeking to destroy an opponent is a poor decision, to say the least..EPS has a cd of 2 min, so I would get enough wep power for 30 sec, after which I would have like what..200 dps per cannon? So for the next minute and a half (if I don't get lucky with critical using BOIII with ACC x 3 DBB in the first place) I would become a punching bag with high aux and high shield power (for who knows what reason), also not to mention slow if using hyper engines and power levels are drastically low..slow means easier to hit etc. Did u ever have a pvp?

You are talking rubish mate..

APA + APOIII + FOMM + GDF = dead engineer

APOIII + EPS = amused tacscort
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,533
# 73
05-22-2013, 07:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dam999 View Post
APA + APOIII + FOMM + GDF = dead engineer

APOIII + EPS = amused tacscort
Well GDF only activates at 50% hull these days... so you should be able to see that one coming a mile away... not that you couldn't before... but lots of bad pilots would just pop it right away.

FOMM you should be clearing almost instantly... if the tac is really really smart he can have it on you for 5s until your second tac team is up.

In any event bottom line is ... this game is NOT balanced around 1v1s. Its balanced around team play... in that arena the engi could use some buffs... however what ever team buffs the engi has... it will still never be the idea class for 1v1ing if that is really what you are trying to do. Engi is a support class by design... the very idea of being a "tank" class, (which does not and will never exist in PvP) makes it support first.

As much as It pains me to say it... engi escort has been a bad idea for 2 years now... it worked for a short while when self heals where not near as good as they are now. As it is there is nothing Cryptic will be able to do ever that will make engi on par in terms of killing power in a 1v1... having said that Engi Carriers and Engi Cruisers should almost NEVER die in a 1v1... granted they are unlikely to ever win either... the engi is the zombie class of the game.

Honesty its by design so there is really no point in complaining about it any more. I think everyone supports some team buff changes to make them a viable team member again... however I don't think anyone is worried about buffing there captain skills to add self damage to make them more viable in 1v1s. Really if you want to win 1v1s... Role your own tak so you can dogfight with other players which is in fact fun... or role a Sci and win every single 1v1 you want to do.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 67
# 74
05-22-2013, 10:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
Honesty its by design so there is really no point in complaining about it any more. I think everyone supports some team buff changes to make them a viable team member again... however I don't think anyone is worried about buffing there captain skills to add self damage to make them more viable in 1v1s. Really if you want to win 1v1s... Role your own tak so you can dogfight with other players which is in fact fun... or role a Sci and win every single 1v1 you want to do.
If sci and tac can have 1vs1 then an eng should have an option to be as competitive. Why would someone take that aspect away from the engineer class? Everyone should have approximately the same chance of winning the PVP. Only the path should be different in which tac would rely on brute force, sci on gadgets and eng, well, on modifications of this and that. You can't say to engineers, sorry but you are a huge pinata, that's just wrong and unbalanced.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,533
# 75
05-22-2013, 10:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dam999 View Post
If sci and tac can have 1vs1 then an eng should have an option to be as competitive. Why would someone take that aspect away from the engineer class? Everyone should have approximately the same chance of winning the PVP. Only the path should be different in which tac would rely on brute force, sci on gadgets and eng, well, on modifications of this and that. You can't say to engineers, sorry but you are a huge pinata, that's just wrong and unbalanced.
No one ever took it away from them... it was always 100% a bad option. Engi has never been a good class to one v one with.

Its the same in every game... you can't go into any Fantasy MMO and take a tank into a 1v1 and expect to really win against a PvP built DPS or CC class.

Its the design... Cryptic wants engi to = tank... so for that reason alone they are always going ot be the weakest option for 1v1s. So I'm not trying to be mean... but if 1v1 is your preference for PvP game play you honestly really need to role a tac or a sci. Sci is honestly the best 1v1 class hands down... if thats your thing role a sci.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 107
# 76
05-25-2013, 06:50 AM
one huge problem is there should be NO tac career tactical should be part of OPS which is tactical, Security, Operation, and Engineering.
the game should be Science, Operations, Command.
not this stupid tac, sci, eng..
I dont know where the Dev's got this idea from.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 107
# 77
05-25-2013, 10:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dam999 View Post
Nah, you don't have to, really..

Engineers are dead as dead..

The game is built Mostly for tac escorts, that's it..Not a single engineer player skill that matters..
Not entirely true. Its the way this game is built. Engineers don't have a purpose, because there is no need for them. There is no real need for a tank which is the main role of the Engineer in this game. not to mention it is almost impossible to fill the role 100%. no threat gen skills like seen in other MMOs. there are the new consoles, but even then escorts will steal argo.

This game is mainly about killing as fast as you can, there is no strategy. Hence why you just mind as well play TAC. Tacs in the game's current form as the most versatile career to play. you can put them in cruisers and get all the benefits of the tank with the extra dmg boost, same with sci ships. Sci career is just as broken, there are no real need for them outside PVP.

As far as ground goes, Engi's do help sometimes, but its still about killing things as fast as possible and moving on to the next area/objective.

Basically its

Tac-Everything
Sci-PvP
Engi-useless
Rihannsu
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 567
# 78
05-25-2013, 11:09 AM
I'm sure engineers are back to action after release of the Miracle worker GLITCH. everything is back to balance now
Say the word, it saves the world.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,325
# 79
05-26-2013, 04:09 AM
Don't you dare bring the Freespace games into refute with your factless yammering!
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 405
# 80
05-26-2013, 07:24 AM
I spent MANY months trying desperately to make my engineer competitive in pvp. Fed engineer is even worse though. I tried to borg set, maco set, romulan set, omega set. Antiproton, phasers, tetryon, cannons, beam boat, Dual beams. There isn't anything as far as I know that I haven't tried. I am not the greatest player, but I do know what I am doing, which makes it frustrating.

I finally had settled on dual beams, especially after LoR. The RCS, EPtX, SIT, and trait changes really did make it a lot of fun. I do dual a lot, as a means of testing how effective X build is. I always dual my same friend in his defiant as a baseline, and after the leadership change as well, the dual was a lot more fun. It was still a stand off of course, but I actually was hurting him to the point where he had to actually, you know, maneuver.

So I decided to go back to my tac who I haven't played in 6 months and do the same build with her, Fleet Excelsior with dual beams and turrets (no rep though as I never ran them with her) and nothing but an Aegis set.

Holy crap, what a difference. The amount of self tanking I lost was hardly comparable to the amount of damage I gained. He blew up quite hand-idly.

However, I will say that the new Engineer traits are a HUGE improvement towards the class. EPtW1-3 are actually quite potent now and I imagine if I played around with it a bit more I could make a very promising Eng cruiser damage dealer. But it will never compare to the damage output of a tac in the same cruiser, nor should it really. Efleet needs to be improved a lot, EPS is kind of redundant now with all the power bonuses/warp core stuff we have now (it DOES help you go overcap, but perhaps letting any system go overcap would make it worth it?). NI is still good, but its kinda BS that the Bogai has a mini version of it.

I don't know. Making the Eng tank focus is fine and dandy. Giving them more damage is not the answer. Making them more team friendly is what they need.

Like others have suggested, allow MW to be castable on others and clear SNB. Or something I would like is for Extend Shields to actually extend your current shield strength. So throwing up RSF and then extend shields would be quite potent. That might be a touch on the crazy side though, plus would require a re-tool of the skill, which we all know cryptic doesn't like to spend time on.

If you are going to have a class that is tank focused, give tank focus some purpose in the game. When ever I Q up for PvP with my eng, people are either good enough to keep themselves alive so therefore I am not needed, or they suck something awful and blow up in 2 seconds which then again, I am unnecessary.
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