Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,416
# 11
05-28-2013, 12:00 PM
Well this explains why cryptic thinks beams are fine and canons are fine then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,015
# 12
05-28-2013, 12:01 PM
/partisan on

If this is really a PvP v. PvE epeen contest, just tell those FAW cruisers to thank DDIS for the double A2B tac cruiser.

Also, let me say right friggin here that if A2B gets nerfed it will be all the PvE threads talking about completion times for STFs that does it, even though some will come with torches and pitchforks for anybody who questioned A2B's effect on PvP ability cycles.

/partisan off

Since we brought up getting PvE DHC damage up, what about maximizing the "down time" (between CRF cycles, traveling to objectives, etc.) with the Rom battle cloak. These days recloak is getting shorter while the buff is getting longer.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,249
# 13
05-28-2013, 12:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
Ya you can go faster. Seriously... just get to the stuff that needs blowing up fast and kill in before Mr Faw racks up a ton of "DPS" off it. lol

Beams have the better pve aoe skill... its true.

The thing is WHO cares what your Damage Per Second is averaged out over a STF or a PvP match.

We are pvpers and Forcing people to respawn is sort of what we should care about.

Honestly there is a lot of people that would be well served to just delete there parsing programs, there not helping them. lol

There is only one question that you need to ask yourself in regard to a PvP build...

"How long will it take me to deliver More dmg then my target has hull"

Now if the answer to that isn't fast enough to negate peoples healing cycles... then you have problems.. The kind of problems that COULD possibly lead you to the terrible Parser philosophy that may well see you racking up 1mil+ dmg on a score board... and still loosing matches. lol

{on the note of cycles... if people would watch buffs on targets a little more they would become much more effective. I still see people that consider themselves to be good pvpers who are obviously not paying to much attention to who they are shooting at.}

At this point if you are flying a non support ship... and honestly even if you are. There is no real excuse to not have a build that can have a stradagy to burst someone down. Now not every build will be able to do that every 30s... but really even a healing build can be setup to be able to deliver that "alpha shock" every 3min or so.
Kind of like when you look at the scoreboard, and you've got the middle damage numbers, lowest heals, but your win/loss puts in the #1 slot? (i.e. most actual KILLS.)

I remember one game where, at the end of it, there was a Fed on the other side who had put down a LOT of raw damage numbers, but didn't have but one kill the entire match.
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."

I play KDF, because being a genocidal maniac works better with Klingons, than explaining it as a member of Starfleet.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 14
05-28-2013, 12:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redricky View Post
Also, let me say right friggin here that if A2B gets nerfed it will be all the PvE threads talking about completion times for STFs that does it, even though some will come with torches and pitchforks for anybody who questioned A2B's effect on PvP ability cycles.
Personally, I don't see it happening or being needed.


Even the guys running these "cruisers" have no illusions that their ships are made of glass when it comes to absorbing damage.


So there is a trade off, which funnily enough only comes into play if they don't run with other super-tuned DPS ships with low mitigation.

Option 1) Run with all super tuned DPS glass cannons. Kill stuff before it can even fight back.

Option 2) Take super tuned DPS glass cannon into ESTF with subpar builds. Stuff lives longer, you die more.

Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,464
# 15
05-28-2013, 12:52 PM
So does this mean DHC's need a buff????

Lolol


Its all on the pilot. I'll still do better dps with 2 copies of CSV and TS3 and APB3. More sustained, more spike and will move faster to the next target.

Just bc someone gets higher total dps doesn't necessarily mean they contributed more.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,283
# 16
05-28-2013, 01:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maicake716 View Post
so i got told that beams do more dps then dhc in pve.

which doesnt make any sense given my time in pvp.

so which is it?
Neither. Attack Pattern Beta does more damage than anything in an ESTF the weapons used are just a detail.

Fact of the matter is a parser program simply tells you the total amount of damage dealt in your combat log with absolutely no context about it. By context I am referring of course to the following:

1) Who hit the target with -resist debuffs and how many are stacked upon it
2) Who immobilized the target granting you stupidly high accuracy overflow
3) Did the target you just dealt damage to instantly heal it and/or change shield facings

Also a premade designed to push a single tactic to it's fullest will always make the average PuG look terribad.
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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,178
# 17
05-28-2013, 08:18 PM
my 2 AtB cruisers have silly dps in pve, but it does jack in pvp due to how much mitigation per second there is. theres exactly 0 mitigation in pve, so all that maters is dps, so maxed out tac cruisers do very well there. but do very little in pvp due to defensive power creep. at least my cruiser hax can benefit the pve'ers, it lets their cruisers be the ships they want them to be.
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Survivor of Remus
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 317
# 18
05-30-2013, 10:07 AM
I think it is important to throw out, that when people talk about DPS here, they almost entirely are talking about parsed DPS numbers.

While I am happy to say the beam boats of all kinds can do great things in contributing to STFs, we shouldn't write off escorts just yet.

A good deal of the FAW damage is wasted.
There is mitigation in PVE, however the combat log does not recognize it, and counts that damage as dealt.
The parser doesn't account for useless damage that is instantly regenerated (such as any damage done to cube or upper probes in Cure before lower probes are destroyed).

I think a good balance of FAW ships and CSV ships are the way to go to get maximum effectiveness in PVE, especially if everyone is spreading around APBs.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 778
# 19
05-30-2013, 06:10 PM
A lot of these DPS Cruisers need APB to get their omgwut DPS.

Attack Pattern Beta works in PvE. In PvP, it does not. Thanks TacTeam!
The first we heard of getting new PvP maps "soon" was in August of 2010. We're consistently told something will be coming with the "next" update. Absolutely nothing has come to PvP since launch.

I think it's finally time Cryptic stopped stringing us along, don't you?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,427
# 20
05-31-2013, 02:40 AM
Spreadsheet PvE builds hold zero water in PvP because NPCs don't use abilities or counters. It's just a game of adding up numbers to beat the stop clock.

In PvP DHCs outclass beams so hard it isn't even funny. "DPS" is meaningless, as an escort you want to be running at low throttle most of the time anyway so you can front-load your important buffs for just the right moment. Equally skilled healers know when to expect incoming spike which is why the sudden and 'bursty' nature of DHCs is even more valuable.

I tried a game in the lowbie Rom queues last night. The ship had random quest gear and I forgot to slot one of my BOffs. Just through rotating BC and APA + TT I had eighteen kills and three+ times the output of everyone else on the map put together just from DHC burst. The only time I died to the poor beam Mirandas was when one of their friendly Golfballs got a good snare on me.

Yes there are nasty Tac snoozers out there, but for the most part these ships build around their limitations to imitate the escort model. Good in duels or against light-sustain teams though.

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Last edited by shimmerless; 05-31-2013 at 02:44 AM.
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