Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,145
# 421
06-04-2013, 04:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daemonheld View Post
This is most likely completely true. However, it's their game. It's their rules. They have disclaimers all over the place basically telling you "if you don't like it, tough tukkis."

The mail issue is something the powers-that-be feel is an exploit. They've plugged the hole.

How is any of that supposed to be take in a way you feel I'm "drinking the koolaid"? If anyone is under any unreal expectation on them reverting things back the way they were, it isn't me.

Jolan'tru
They're wording was 'it's being used differently that how we imagined it should be used'. They built the system, we used it within the limits they put in.

Remember those words next time they change something and don't tell you about it, perhaps it's something that you use ingame, and if you don't like it, tuff tukkis.
KBF Lord MalaK
Awoken Dead

Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 81
# 422
06-04-2013, 04:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordmalak1 View Post
You seem to be under the mistaken notion that our use of the mail system somehow affects your gameplay. If you quit drinking their kool-aid for a second and think about how e-mail attachments actually work you'll realize the attachment limit has nothing at all to do with game or server performance and is only a way to channel users into another pay-to-use system authored by your game creators.

Thats all well and good, except there is presently no substitute mechanism (pay or otherwise) replacing this storage method. They killed doff and long term storage which is absolutely needed due to starbase construction and the way items stack/bind without an adequate substitute. I can understand they want to monitize what they can to pay for the game and make some money, but this seems more like an arbitrary unintended change by developers who do not understand how many utilize their game. There are solutions here, but first we need the developers to acknowledge the issue.

There have been many suggestions in this thread on how to alter the storage situation and allow them to make money at it. People aren't against a game they enjoy from profiting so that it can continue to exist. The problem here is an unannounced change without any stated reason which alters how people are forced to play due to design decisions without any adequate alternative means to adjust gameplay.

There have been many suggestions in this thread on how to deal with this. Some of these highly workable and profitable solutions include; unlimiting storage purchase options, changing how doffs are used in starbases in to tokens used for projects, a doff storage bank, chaning so that starbase projects can use any catagory of doff, allowing the purchase of mail attachment slots, etc. There are solutions out there, but making an announced change without any plan to provide the needed storage capacity shows that the developers either don't know their players and how they deal with the games limits, or simply don't care. Either case is disturbing.

TL/DR: Changes are fine, just make sure there are solutions in place (pay or otherwise) so players can continue to use the game.

Last edited by daedalus27; 06-04-2013 at 04:26 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 66
# 423
06-04-2013, 04:37 PM
This whole mail thing reminds me of another Cryptic "change" for City of Heroes....Enhancement Diversification.


"Enhancement Diversification," or ED imposed a point of sharply diminished returns on how far each individual aspect of each power could be improved; prior to ED, a player could focus all enhancements on only one of a power's aspects and receive fully cumulative benefits.

Cryptic's stated reason behind ED was "to promote the use of more different types of Enhancements in powers." Critics derided ED, saying that its universal reduction of the maximum possible effectiveness of all characters made it a global nerf; that many defensive powers had now been significantly weakened for two issues in a row, frustrating especially those who specialize in such powers and invalidating many of their existing tactics; that some powers cannot legally or usefully accept more than one type of enhancement and thus cannot be "diversified"; that it was deceitful to enact such a severe change less than a month after officially announcing "we're [Cryptic] finished making large changes to the power sets," and that ED was too fundamental a change to implement so long after the original launch.

ED also received strong negative feedback from the player community; the response thread to ED on the official City of Heroes message forum exceeded 3,500 replies in the first 36 hours, and soon after grew so large that a second thread was required due to forum software limits"

Along with that, the player base only became aware of this change because a beta tester broke NDA to tell everyone what was coming down the road. It seemed apparent that Cryptic decided to change this mechanic w/o any feedback whatsoever.

I guess some habits never die.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,002
# 424
06-04-2013, 05:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by syberghost View Post
This wasn't a stealth nerf; this was emergency maintenance. The mail system was being broken, and that breaking was affecting other things.

And those of you who were abusing the mail system for free item storage KNEW you were doing something unintended, and thus knew eventually the free ride would come to a stop. There is an easy solution to the "problem" of having too many white doffs:

Lower your Exchange prices for them. They'll sell, prices will come down, and people won't feel the need to store them anymore because they'll be plentiful in the Exchange. Put the EC in your fleet bank, and let your officers use it to buy the doffs they need for the fleet projects. Or keep the EC yourself, and buy the doffs for your fleet.

This will work if there's a limit on storage, which there now is. Now the market needs to adjust, which will take time. It'll take less time if you help it instead of fighting it.
One of the features advertised for the life time subscription and for gold membership is unlimited use of the mail.

I don't know a single person who used the mail to store items who had any suspicion at all they were misusing it in any way. Cold storage of doffs on there was a feature that had existed for a long time, and a necessary feature.

The lack of any other way to store doffs for starbases indicated that this was the means intended.

I resent your false accusation that me or anyone else "knew" we were "doing something unintended" and therefore "abusing" anything. You're doing something wrong by accusing us of this, and you should apologize. This is quite literally adding insult to injury, syberghost.

I also want to you to explain to me in detail how the hundreds of dollars I paid for a lifetime subscription for which one of the advertised benefits was "unlimited" mail access means I was taking any kind of "free ride."

I am fairly certain that "insulting subscribers on the forums" is not part of your responsibilities as a community moderator and I would like to ask for the contact information of your supervisor so that I can make a complaint against you
.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 36
# 425
06-04-2013, 05:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by repetitiveepic View Post

I resent your false accusation that me or anyone else "knew" we were "doing something unintended" and therefore "abusing" anything. You're doing something wrong by accusing us of this, and you should apologize. This is quite literally adding insult to injury, syberghost.

I also want to you to explain to me in detail how the hundreds of dollars I paid for a lifetime subscription for which one of the advertised benefits was "unlimited" mail access means I was taking any kind of "free ride."

I am fairly certain that "insulting subscribers on the forums" is not part of your responsibilities as a community moderator and I would like to ask for the contact information of your supervisor so that I can make a complaint against you
.
That.. isn't insulting you. Also if they agree..
(Besides, speaking as someone who hears that all the time..)

Also: Yes, people holding more mail and items actually does take up more space. I imagine it's not as huge as an actual mailstore, but there's a reason why a lot of corporations have mail limits and attachment limits. A good one.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,002
# 426
06-04-2013, 05:46 PM
It is insulting to accuse paid subscribers, the game's customers, of knowingly abusing the mail system.

The advertised feature matrix for paid subscription lists unlimited access to mail as a feature provided in return for payment.

It is therefore also insulting to accuse paying customers of taking a "free ride" for making use of the features they paid for.

I have emailed customer service with this, and also emailed the community moderator "syberghost" on his gmail account asking him for the contact information of his supervisor so that I can file a complaint about his conduct.

I believe it would be appropriate for him to apologize in this thread to me and others he has insulted with these remarks.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 36
# 427
06-04-2013, 05:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by repetitiveepic View Post
It is insulting to accuse paid subscribers, the game's customers, of knowingly abusing the mail system.

The advertised feature matrix for paid subscription lists unlimited access to mail as a feature provided in return for payment.

It is therefore also insulting to accuse paying customers of taking a "free ride" for making use of the features they paid for.

I have emailed customer service with this, and also emailed the community moderator "syberghost" on his gmail account asking him for the contact information of his supervisor so that I can file a complaint about his conduct.

I believe it would be appropriate for him to apologize in this thread to me and others he has insulted with these remarks.
You're assuming a bit much, but go ahead.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,421
# 428
06-04-2013, 05:53 PM
Whats going to happen is not people are going to create alt accounts just to hold mail.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,679
# 429
06-04-2013, 08:18 PM
Hi,

This thread has now most definitely run its course, and isn?t providing any constructive feedback, so due to this as well as the high number of flaming/trolling posts and/or reported posts in this thread, I'm closing this thread down.

  1. For future reference please remember that it helps a great deal when posts which violate the PWE Community Rules and Policies are not responded to and are reported via submitting a Forums and Website Ticket (click here).

  2. If you think any of your posts within a thread have violated the PWE Community Rules and Policies, please edit your posts before a moderator takes action.

  3. If you feel you need to get in touch with PWE BranFlakes to discuss the actions taken by any Community Moderator, you can do so by submitting a Forums and Website ticket (click here).

Cheers,

syberghost
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