Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,142
# 11
06-09-2013, 01:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckingram View Post
NPC's are agile enough to be a challenge, and smart enough to rebalance their shields after taking damage on particular vector, something many people here don't seem to understand. Cannon equipped escorts need a snappy turnrate due to the nature of cannons. Cruisers DON'T need turnrate as much for mostly for the same reason.

Hint: Fly a well-equipped cruiser for a few days to the exclusion of all else. Hopefully doing so will highlight their benefits and teach one to appreciate them for what they are, and not hate them because they aren't escorts.
NO, that is backwards.
cannons have a narrow arc to offset higher in arc dps, otherwise all weapons might as well have the same arc.

when you let the magic stats boosted 'escorts' have a way of negating that arc while having no penalty elsewhere, you break the game.
as it turns out, an intrepid would lose a fight with a connie.
and thats canon.
! the power of plot compels you.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,691
# 12
06-09-2013, 01:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skollulfr View Post
thats why i have started arguing less turn should result in more range.
it puts into the game a muchanism that directly accounts for agility.
How about instead of crying rivers of tears you instead switch to a beam broadside and realise that big ships are not going to deal as much concentrated DPS as escorts and its balanced out by having superior defenses? Of course, whether a cruiser pilot chooses to take advantage of that or not is up to them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sorceror01 View Post
....you are a bad starship captain and you should feel bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tachyonharmonic View Post
However, I think with regard to the Romulan Republic player characters/npcs, it all comes down to a finite point:

These are not the Romulans from the shows.
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,142
# 13
06-09-2013, 01:58 AM
nice red herring you got there along with your adhom.

is it your ego thats so bruised you deliberately ignore the point and respond with insults, or is that just all you have to offer?
as it turns out, an intrepid would lose a fight with a connie.
and thats canon.
! the power of plot compels you.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,691
# 14
06-09-2013, 02:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skollulfr View Post
nice red herring you got there along with your adhom.

is it your ego thats so bruised you deliberately ignore the point and respond with insults, or is that just all you have to offer?
I speak from experience. I WAS one of those bad pilots that had no clue of what I was doing, so I ended up in a cruiser because it was all that would keep me alive during PvE missions. Then I saw what knowledgeable players could do and I set to learning. Back then there wasn't the wealth of information available now. I fly both a tacsort and an engi cruiser extensively and I can tell you with utmost confidence my engi cruiser does not contribute less to group content than my tacscort. I will say that to make a cruiser work is harder than making an escort work, and some cruiser designs are just not suitable at all for the current meta. The galaxy and star cruisers are primary examples of such designs. Hybrid ships are all the rage these days, its why the Ambassador is a better design than the Galaxy or the Star Cruiser.

I understand why it might be frustrating, wanting cruisers to be the battleships but they never were that in the shows or movies, at least not the modern ones. Heck, even the Intrepid was shown as a more combat capable ship than the Galaxy ever was (or the Sovy if we're being fair).

As to your wanting ranges to be a bigger deal... for the little combat we saw in the shows I never got the impression that ships fought artillery duels at range. It was always up close and personal. True, that was done for the audience's benefit but it stands as the way it was done in the shows. In that regard STO feels very much like the larger DS9 battles.

Edit: You also need to realize that all ships need to be roughly equally playable, so making big ships the battle line and everyone else just a support for them doesn't work in a game where all ships are played by people. Before you mention eve keep in mind that in eve getting the resources to GET bigger ships is part of the competitive game, not so in STO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sorceror01 View Post
....you are a bad starship captain and you should feel bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tachyonharmonic View Post
However, I think with regard to the Romulan Republic player characters/npcs, it all comes down to a finite point:

These are not the Romulans from the shows.

Last edited by skyranger1414; 06-09-2013 at 02:26 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,204
# 15
06-09-2013, 03:42 AM
Turn rate is important for cruisers as well. yes you want to broadside to maximize firepower but what about if heals are in cooldown and the facing shield drops. If you cannot turn good enough then NPC's in any smaller craft will remain on that facing causing considerable damage while you try to face a better shield in vain. So for my Vo'quv and the deri'dex recieved 2 RCS consoles just to bring it on par with other cruisers.
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,142
# 16
06-09-2013, 04:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyranger1414 View Post
I speak from experience. I WAS one of those bad pilots that had no clue of what I was doing, so I ended up in a cruiser because it was all that would keep me alive during PvE missions. Then I saw what knowledgeable players could do and I set to learning. Back then there wasn't the wealth of information available now. I fly both a tacsort and an engi cruiser extensively and I can tell you with utmost confidence my engi cruiser does not contribute less to group content than my tacscort. I will say that to make a cruiser work is harder than making an escort work, and some cruiser designs are just not suitable at all for the current meta. The galaxy and star cruisers are primary examples of such designs. Hybrid ships are all the rage these days, its why the Ambassador is a better design than the Galaxy or the Star Cruiser.

I understand why it might be frustrating, wanting cruisers to be the battleships but they never were that in the shows or movies, at least not the modern ones. Heck, even the Intrepid was shown as a more combat capable ship than the Galaxy ever was (or the Sovy if we're being fair).

As to your wanting ranges to be a bigger deal... for the little combat we saw in the shows I never got the impression that ships fought artillery duels at range. It was always up close and personal. True, that was done for the audience's benefit but it stands as the way it was done in the shows. In that regard STO feels very much like the larger DS9 battles.

Edit: You also need to realize that all ships need to be roughly equally playable, so making big ships the battle line and everyone else just a support for them doesn't work in a game where all ships are played by people. Before you mention eve keep in mind that in eve getting the resources to GET bigger ships is part of the competitive game, not so in STO.
and its only with the recent season & the introduction of 'grace under fire' that my engies cruisers became less likely to die in an stf than its escorts.
as i have said, it doent take a massive amount of time to figure out what the formulas are in this game, it pisses me off that they are there.
what is the point in half the abilities if your are just gong to be nerfed out of existance, or the ships that use them sidelined?

funny thing about the gal and tadpole... their boff setup works or on a corsair.

again, i dont want the big ships to simply dominate, but as it stands, they are trash. trash that even you are admitting when you admit its harder to make them work than escorts(half of which are cruisers), i want them to have comparable standing through available mechanisms. and shoehornig them into this stupid trinity model is counter productive to that.

unlike other games, thing one allows all ships to carry mk12 gear, so gear cant logically be a reason for one ship being stronger or weaker if they are armed the same way.

its obvious the game mechanically demands a given dps potential, either to offset passive heals, of as i so often reference hold a side of probes in vortex elite

both of these factors make weapon range a natural point in balancing one ship against another.
and to hell with the trinity in that imo.
as it turns out, an intrepid would lose a fight with a connie.
and thats canon.
! the power of plot compels you.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,060
# 17
06-09-2013, 04:36 AM
I find the turn rate only a problem if you have trouble keeping shields up on a side or want to use your torpedoes. Which isn't a problem for some of the zippier ships used by Tac and Sci. But a slug like the Galaxy... ugh.

IIRC cruisers are supposed to hull tank and not shield tank. But hulls don't last long once the shields go so that isn't much of a role. Maybe they can do what they're supposed to with an increased hull HP.
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Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 18
06-09-2013, 05:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by twg042370 View Post
I find the turn rate only a problem if you have trouble keeping shields up on a side or want to use your torpedoes. Which isn't a problem for some of the zippier ships used by Tac and Sci. But a slug like the Galaxy... ugh.

IIRC cruisers are supposed to hull tank and not shield tank. But hulls don't last long once the shields go so that isn't much of a role. Maybe they can do what they're supposed to with an increased hull HP.
Except that a APA3, APO3, THY3 mk XII quantum with one [crtd] mod can easily do over 120k in a crit on bare hull, which makes hull tanking a joke. You would need drastically increased hull hp to make hull tanking possible, and then you would have ships that energy weapons would NEVER be able to kill.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 210
# 19
06-09-2013, 08:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skollulfr View Post
NO, that is backwards.
Some of you guys really need to rethink your approach to interacting with others.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 210
# 20
06-09-2013, 08:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetwtf View Post
Turn rate is important for cruisers as well. yes you want to broadside to maximize firepower but what about if heals are in cooldown and the facing shield drops. If you cannot turn good enough then NPC's in any smaller craft will remain on that facing causing considerable damage while you try to face a better shield in vain. So for my Vo'quv and the deri'dex recieved 2 RCS consoles just to bring it on par with other cruisers.
Really, isn't obvious that "stand your ground" as a cruiser tactic isn't available in STO? I won't insult your intelligence by offering ideas, being that if you've piloted a cruiser for any length of time you should already know the tricks.
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